April 24, 2014

Why Hellaflush Sucks

Posted on March 11, 2010 by in On the Road

Unsafe Hellaflush

Let me be clear here: I’m talking about the “hellaflush movement” in car culture, not about Fatlace. Fatlace is a design studio that’s also one of the most respectable car/footwear/urban/”street” resources on the internet, and they absolutely have my respect for that.  They actually cover all kinds of fun stuff, but this post isn’t about Fatlace. It’s about the mindset that has evolved under their loving care, and has since run amok and become its own term.  If you aren’t already familiar with Fatlace, check them out.

Depending on where you’re from, you may know this movement as Stanceworks, but I’m going to keep calling it Hellaflush because that term pretty much sums up everything I dislike about it.

First, let’s start with the etymology of the word.

Hella

The word “hella” is an adjective. It supposedly originated in the San Francisco Bay Area, and judging by the overuse I see every day, I’m inclined to agree with that. It can mean anything from “very” to “lots of” (this car has hella power, this car is hella powerful) and is sometimes even an adverb (he’s hella runnin’ from the cops!). In my native tongue (Boston-language) we’d overuse “wicked” in place of “hella”, and we often do.

Flush

Flush generally refers to the fitment of wheels and tires with the chassis and fender flares. The closer the wheels are to being flush with the bodywork, the more “hellaflush” that car is.  This generally requires an obscene amount of camber combined with a stretched tire, which changes the angle of the sidewall of the tire.

Bonus

There are a few ways to score extra points in the hellaflush world.

  • Get your car as close to flush with the ground as possible
  • Increase the backspacing of your wheels. More.
  • Stretch the narrowest tires possible on the widest wheels (don’t forget your backspacing!) possible.
  • Shave door handles, trunk latches, keyholes, gas tank covers, and everything else that keeps the body of the car from being “flush”.
  • Try to tuck your entire wheel and tire into the wheelwells.  Ideally, it should all be shoved up where nobody can see it.

Why it’s hella dumb

Cars are made to be driven.  They’re transportation.  Hellaflush is solely cosmetic, at great expense to driveability.  Hellaflush cars look interesting and aggressive when they’re parked, but it’s a facade.  They aren’t aggressive.  They aren’t allowed on self-respecting racetracks, have troubles on the highway, and if your driveway is graded, they’ll park on the street.

Essentially, I see the hellaflush movement as a direct replacement for the show car movement.  Both are idiotic in the same, undriveable, RICE ways.

How to do it right

The early 1960′s model of Ford Falcon came out of the factory hellaflush’d.  It looked mean and the suspension geometry wasn’t intentionally wrong.  With a little more work, the bumpsteer can be removed and camber curve cleaned up without modifying static camber.  I hope to have a new image to update this with (new, wider wheels are on the falcon), but for now this snapshot from when I was doing body work on it should suffice.  This was a great chance for me to brush up on some body work, since my cars always seem to miss out on cosmetic love (I’ll help a friend out from time to time though).

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345 Responses to “Why Hellaflush Sucks”

  1. Enoe 13 March 2010 at 6:04 pm #

    I dunno you may be right. Hellaflush may be dumb, but so are alot of things. I mean we really don't need paint on our cars as it is cosmetic only. Same with nice wheels. I am by no means a fan of any one kind of car or stance I respect all makes/trends/forms. I personally like a car that can handle like crazy, but if your just lookin to cruise, or street your car. Then by all means do hat you want to it. I like slammed cars. I like alot of camber. Not a crazy amount, but enough for me to see it. One thing I will say is that sometimes hellaflush is taken to far with wheels that are just stickin out. That doesn't look good to me. I'm no the biggest fan of the tucked flush (like the above Beamer) either. Still my Z is goin for a low, cambered, slammed, an maybe flush look.

    • matt 7 May 2012 at 6:15 am #

      why? Just to look like every other slow, pretend sports car at half these car shows that go on these days? Sounds good Z’s are pretenders anyway.

    • Gary 8 July 2012 at 1:27 pm #

      Really? Paint isn’t necessary? Have you heard of rust?

      • Andre 3 March 2013 at 11:11 am #

        The delorean was never painted… and I’ve never seen a rusty delorean

        • Jesse O'Brien 15 March 2013 at 7:23 pm #

          Good point. Any cars that aren’t typical mild steel are exempt from needing paint.

        • Santi 27 March 2013 at 4:23 pm #

          have you looked up what the DeLorean is made from? I’ll give you a hint they make spoons and other eating utensils with it. This type of metal was designed NOT to rust. Therefore they don’t need any paint.

          • Jareth Belanger 27 August 2013 at 7:04 pm #

            And weighs a shit ton/ also is more expensive than mild steel/aluminium, which is why it’s not used on almost anything BUT the DeLorean.

        • tom 5 January 2014 at 8:55 am #

          Because they were made of stainless steel body pieces

    • reef 4 August 2012 at 9:04 am #

      Being from the streets of The Bay Area/Central Valley let me just say HellaFlush is fuckin dope.
      With that being said there will always be people who take everything too far, its what we do.
      Also, it is not as unsafe as the writer explained, hellaflush cars seem to co-exist in the drift world, i.e. drifting is whats dangerous yet we all love it and have all taken part in the sliding of our rear end.
      haters gonna hate ;)
      <====3

      • A-40 9 October 2012 at 1:14 am #

        you do realize that a lot of the hellaflush cars are fwd cars? look at that corolla. Hondas are big into The hellaflush thing that has been going on. you mean to tell me that one of those cars has no issues going over speedbumps? how does this stem from drifting? drift cars use the camber for when they go sideways, the flex of t he tire works for them, not against as tires tend to naturally do with no camber. safety wise, is a squirrel runs out in front of one of those cars, it’s going to screw up something under it. not to mention tire pieces in the roads in the central valley. drift cars lowered are for the simple fact of bringing down the center of gravity.Function over form. Tanner Foust and Keiichi Tsuchiya would agree. If you don’t know who the second person is, then you dont know drifting. you think you do.

        • hunter 9 November 2012 at 10:46 am #

          If you think a corolla is supposed to be a hellaflsuh car youre dumb, ive never and hope to not see a stanced corolla. Stancing is a choice it looks sick and gets kids out of trouble and they want to work on there cars.

          • JTC 22 November 2012 at 12:07 am #

            An AE86 is a Corolla and you’ve never seem them stanced? Where the hell have you been?

          • KT 22 November 2012 at 10:32 pm #

            The corolla in question is a FWD. The ae85/86 were the last “Corolla’s” to be RWD.

    • jpeg 4 August 2012 at 1:58 pm #

      this guy is a moron!! hellaflush isnt about cosmetics and fender flares and such….its how cool and different u can make ur car look….ive seen rusty,faded,wethered bodies on tons of hellaflush cars…the rims and camber are the biggest part yeah….and ive seen tons of slammed subarus evos hondas gtos mustangs & youd be surprised….im just saying let them be different

      • BiffX 2 September 2012 at 8:47 am #

        What about make your car look cool is not cosmetic?

        • Abraham 8 June 2013 at 10:59 am #

          What do you mean “What about make your car look cool is not cosmetic?” If you have dual exhaust tips that are functional than it looks better and functions better than without…And HUGE calipers, and vents, the list goes on and on, LOTS of people use performance parts to 1. Improve there performance and 2. Make there car look better in cosmetics. Which effects it visual appearance but still has value in performance. So he could be meaning make your car look cool with performance parts to. Stop being so closed minded.

          • LunchBox223 17 June 2013 at 10:34 am #

            The concept of using performance part parts on a car that physically can’t perform is a waste of parts and money if fuck your car up after you put all this shit on it has no substantial gain it would be like taking a stock turbo from an evo and putting it on a 700 hp ralliart motor

      • althejazzman 20 December 2012 at 8:08 am #

        What’s different about them all looking the same?

      • Secret Sauce 7 May 2013 at 8:21 pm #

        LOL so much contradiction in such a short post. You say “hellaflush isn’t about cosmetics” then follow that up with talking about the rims and camber which, on a car with ridiculous camber and super stretched aggressive fitment that hurts performance, really IS solely for cosmetic purposes. Then you say let them be different, but they ALL do the same dumb 2 things (push the wheels out of the fenders and put the wrong size tires on the wheels so that there’s a bunch of ugly hubcap looking unsprung weight hanging off of each axle). Conforming to a single, rather basic and illogical, style is NOT different at all in fact it’s even more asinine and herd mantality-esque; it’s not different because it’s smart it’s just different because it doesn’t make sense so nobody who values safety, pragmatism or value would do it. Here’s my version of different with your definition plugged in: “I wana be different so I’m gunna put black paint on my entire windshield…Haters gon hate. I’m expressing my individuality…yaaaa.” -_-

      • Dennis 25 February 2014 at 11:23 am #

        You my friend are a fucking retard. First of all I can’t stand clowns who use the word “hella”…pathetic. Second, stance is all about following a stupid trend. It just goes to show how dumb and brainless your generation is…you motherfuckers are so impressionable that you will follow any stupid trend without even thinking what you’re doing. You only find uneducated low life degenerates who are into stance…go to all the nice neighborhoods like Beverly Hills or Malibu or to any top university like Harvard and Yale and you will see those cockroaches and their stanced cars.

        Well, the good news is this, it just proves that your generation is just so dumb and impressionable, I know you fools can be brainwashed into buying any stupid item as long as there is a good marketing strategy. That’s good news for us shrewd business people.

        • Dennis 25 February 2014 at 11:25 am #

          *you will never see stanced cars in any nice and respectable neighborhoods like Beverly Hills and Malibu*

    • A-40 8 October 2012 at 10:22 pm #

      painting cars is not only cosmetic. it’s corrosion prevention. not to mention some japanese race cars have been working with lightweight paint. the amount used to paint a full car weights a good bit if you could put it all into a container. clear coat also acts as a UV protector from the sun.

    • GMoney 23 January 2013 at 1:33 am #

      You are a retard paint is needed to keep your car from rusting.

    • WRXurface 15 April 2013 at 4:43 am #

      If you like hellaflush cool. If you don’t stfu because it’s not like anyone values your opinion anyway. Do what you want to your car and mind your own god damn business.

      • GF4rallyDA9race 17 April 2013 at 8:19 am #

        Its my fucking business when your stupid low ass car stops in the middle of the intersection to go over the 1″ rise in the pavement from construction, leaving me in the middle of the road to fight off traffic. Thanks a lot… Go drive around the country. Being super low is expensive and stupid if you ever intend on keeping your car in good condition. So many assholes like you buy nice stock cars, twist’em up and drag’em across the pavement. Then turn around and want to sell them in six months for a ridiculous price. There is no loyalty. There is no learning. You jump on the internet and skim through the albums of persistent, hardworking, and creative people. You want to be like them, so you knock them down to stand on their piled corpses just to say you were cool for a day. I don’t have a problem with “flush”, I have a problem when you driving on public roads puts me in deadly situations. DRIVE IT HARD, OR PARK IT.

      • Secret Sauce 7 May 2013 at 8:30 pm #

        ORLYNAO?! That’s interesting, then why don’t you take your slammed (therefore useless and dangerous) aggressive fitment, herrafrush, piece of shit that rubs if the suspension is compressed more than 1/2 inch and go over some speed bumps while I’m behind you. Still not my business? Oh no sir, I contend it would be. If you impede my ability to move from point A to B because you are “expressing yourself” automotively, it has now become MY BUSINESS.

        • Abraham 8 June 2013 at 1:58 am #

          Then how about stop being lazy and going around if we were impeding your ability to move in traffic? If the driver knew he was slammed, wouldn’t he be in the slow lane? how about you asses in your stock cars pass us in any of the damn passing lanes (lack of intelligence in realizing they invented other lanes that could assist you in passing slammed cars)??? we’d be menaces if we were in the fast lane traveling at slow speeds. So when you say we impede your mobility by slowing you down at bumps, isn’t that the objective with speed limits is that it keeps you from speeding so were not doing anything illegal, if anything were assisting the law. There aren’t too many limits on lack of speed you moron so it would be safer to be traveling at 45 rather than 60… And lastly, it hasnt become YOUR BUSINESS because speed bumps slow everybody down, (ie, SPEED and BUMP) so what if it takes some more than others to clear it, it still doesnt involve you… selfish individuals like secretsauce and GF4rallyDA9race that cant spare an extra 10 seconds to a slammed car ahead of them to over a speedbump but yet rather call them out and make idiotic acusations torwards them is so low… what has this world become to?

          • Anthony 7 December 2013 at 2:03 am #

            Its illegal to pass in the middle of intersections.

      • Igs 28 June 2013 at 2:43 pm #

        Oh please don’t be that guy who slammed a wrx….PLEASE….it’s a rally car dude. I WANT MY RALLY CAR STUPID LOW AND IMPRACTICAL AND I DONT WANT IT TO EVER DRIVE WELL…..ugh….please. You might as well jack up a ferrari u know? Put it on 40″ why not? It’ll be just as useless as your slammed and hellflush’d ex-rallycar.

        • Tim 30 June 2013 at 4:19 pm #

          Your pretty dumb. Not all subaru wrx are rally cars! They weren’t ever ment to be a rally car. People use them for racing too. Cars can’t be monster truck height when going around a track. They need to be as low as possible for a lower center of gravity and it makes
          It better for cornering and which gives it more down force for more grip you bliteraing idiot! Slammed cars FTW!

          • JIMBAH 14 September 2013 at 10:21 pm #

            Dude, WRX stands for World Rally Cross… How could you say that “They weren’t ever meant to be a rally car.” I think YOU’RE pretty dumb.

      • Tim 30 June 2013 at 4:10 pm #

        Has anyone ever heard of air ride suspension? Lol

        • Lowered_BMW_4_The Haters 6 July 2013 at 2:09 am #

          Air ride suspension is alright, but has its plus’s and minuses. I used to driver a bodydropped SUV for a long time that had Air bags. Problems with bags is they can get a leak easy, and then you are not riding around even.

          I actually prefer Coilovers to bags, as you can set the suspension and it always stays even and level. Just my 2 cents

    • eddie 20 September 2013 at 1:49 am #

      paint is to keep the body from rusting

    • Brian 24 September 2013 at 3:35 pm #

      Yes but you can have a good paint job and nice wheels without affecting the drivability of the car. That’s what he’s referring to is the practicality of it.

    • saturn= spacing out 16 October 2013 at 1:28 pm #

      Let people mod their cars how they want. They will buy parts or go to shops and spend money. Which will find its way to the gov. And then results in me getting paid.

    • Austin 28 January 2014 at 6:26 pm #

      Paint was not originally intended to be solely cosmetic. It kept the steel on your car from oxidizing into a pile of rust. Nice rims were a biproduct of the early muscle car era; a compliment to the excessive chrome trim that was generally reserved for the higher quality cars due to its cost. While they are still cosmetic, they are rooted in a relevant part of automotive history. Hellaflush is neither of those two things. It takes its psudo-roots from high performance cars that utilize a low ride height to lower their centers of gravity, increase vacuum under the body and improve aerodynamics. All of these changes exist to create a safer, faster and tighter car. The main difference is that cars that are hellaflushed are vastly inferior in all of these categories. Their handleing is poor because the suspension geometry is rarely changed along with the severe alteration in ride height. The drastic camber makes it even worse by reducing traction and increasing tire wear. To top it all off the tires taking the brunt of this stupidity are stretch far beyond their intended limits and rubbing the wheel wells at just about every decent turn. Car enthusiasts are individuals who have a passion for cars. Learning, driving, repairing but most of all improving. That craving to build the best car is what started the hot rod era and the uniquely American sport of drag racing. Hellaflush is the act of taking an average car and, with the help of a couple grand, sadisticly twisting it into a useless piece of crap.

  2. Jesse 19 March 2010 at 9:56 pm #

    Well, paint definitely serves a purpose by preventing metal-on-moisture contact and keeping rust away. Quality wheels serve a purpose by allowing wider tires and keeping them more firmly seated, resulting in a safer, more controllable vehicle.I'm not saying I don't respect the builders of flush cars, a lot of quality work goes into these cars, I just don't agree with the end result they're going for. I think it's silly and pointless.Lastly, a lot of things we do to cars are dumb. I'm not sure why we do a lot of what we do. I try to keep myself as practical and focused as possible, and it'd be a boring world if other people focused on the exact same things I value.

  3. Gollum 14 April 2010 at 6:46 pm #

    Well covered, so my only comment is…….drum roll please……People that modify their car to “look” better yet adversely affect performance should be forced to drive old saabs for the rest of their life.

    • Eric 23 June 2012 at 7:59 am #

      That’s not such a bad punishment, now that I think about it.
      Gimme a Saab 99 any day…

      • Sam 25 March 2013 at 4:13 am #

        I’m with you Eric, those old 99′s were quick and they didn’t have the flex in the scuttle that later models had.

    • Taylor 10 August 2012 at 9:18 pm #

      Say what you will about the hellaflush, or in other words, the stretching of skinny tire around a wider wheel, but the modification of camber does improve the performance of particular cars. In the drift world, it is advantageous to have a car with positive camber because during a drift (or any hard
      turn for that matter) the center of gravity that exists for vehicles going in a constant direction is shifted adversely in the direction of turn. With this shift the cambered wheel on the side where this force is being exerted adopts a more upright position and thus
      gives the vehicle more traction during it’s drift. Drifters view increased traction during drifts as being more important than having a typical amount of traction during straights- it’s a trade off that they choose to part take in. Obviously things can be overdone, but the basic idea of camber is pretty smart.

      • Taylor 10 August 2012 at 9:23 pm #

        You just think it’s dumb because it goes through tires faster… if people are willing to dish out cash for these extra tires then why do you care?

      • Jesse O'Brien 2 September 2012 at 10:14 am #

        That’s why proper suspension is engineered with camber curves, so the car isn’t tuned for a single speed and angle of approach. In a properly tuned car, as the suspension compresses, that wheel moves up the camber curve and increases its negative camber (you meant negative camber, even though you said positive).
        The hellaflush enthusiasts that this article is about are those people who do not have a thorough understanding of suspension dynamics, and simply increase their static camber without understanding how suspencion geometry actually works. There are examples of well-built hellaflush street cars, but they’re extremely few and far between.

      • ted 8 September 2012 at 4:13 pm #

        Yes, but you are forgetting a very important point… drifting is stupid. It is a form of motorsport (term used loosely) where appearance trumps performance. I don’t see serious racing series like F1 adopting a drift mentality any time soon. Well, NASCAR might, it’d allow them to increasing the number of accidents, which always sells tickets.

        • A-40 9 October 2012 at 1:22 am #

          drifting takes constant input from steering, brake, clutch, gas, and e-brake at any given time. and just so you know, F1 and Moto-gp both adopted drifting techniques for warming up tires. Moto-gp kicks the rear tires out to get them warmed up during a race, and F1 does after tire changes. difference is it’s more subtle then in a drift event. paint scheme on F1

          • A-40 9 October 2012 at 1:23 am #

            drifting takes constant input from steering, brake, clutch, gas, and e-brake at any given time. and just so you know, F1 and Moto-gp both adopted drifting techniques for warming up tires. Moto-gp kicks the rear tires out to get them warmed up during a race, and F1 does after tire changes. difference is it’s more subtle then in a drift event. paint scheme on F1 cars is not different then the ones on drift cars. Stickers are for sponsors. How is drifting mostly visual?? your closed minded.

          • Dwayne_Chapman 29 March 2013 at 9:00 pm #

            You obviously know nothing about MotoGP. Go crawl back into your moms vagina.

        • Sam 25 March 2013 at 4:25 am #

          Oh dearest Ted, How stupid are you? Drifting is stupid? Have you tried it? Mastered it if yo’ve tried it ? No i thought not. If you’ve ever been a passenger in a drift car then you’ll know just how much input the driver has in order to maintain not only the angle of drift but speed as well. If you’d ever tried it you wouldn’t have thought of such an asshat comment as ‘drifting is stupid’, knowledge is power Ted and you have neither!

  4. mr miola 18 April 2010 at 8:38 am #

    you are so stuped calling hellaflush a dumb movement, u gtfo of import scene, out, outttttt

    • Dane Larsen 17 February 2011 at 4:02 pm #

      not trying to be disrespectful about this, but statements like this is what kept me out of the import scene for so long.. im falling inlove with the old jdm stuff and i dont mind “hellaflush” cars here and there and im definetly not a fan of creature comforts, but when all is said and done, if youre going to defend your opinion it has to have some weight behind it. for instance jesse states why he dislikes hellaflush. its just one of those things where if you want someone to respect you you should be the first to show respect. but to each his own. cheers.

      • Jesse O'Brien 2 December 2011 at 10:30 am #

        I have to agree with your stance, Dane. Even I don’t mind stanced cars on the streets as long as they’re safe. I get a lot more meaningless trolls (I’m HOPING Mr Miola isn’t as dense as he actually sounds) posting comments on here than I actually publish, but every once in awhile I’ll let a few past the gates. I suppose they’d call it “keepin’ it real” right? Looking back, my argument was relatively weak, and while I’d love to revise this post (I only spent 10 minutes or so writing it initially and never expected this kind of a response), that would be unfair to all the previous commenters. Stick around here though, I like having level-headed people commenting here. I could get used to it.

    • matt 7 May 2012 at 6:16 am #

      no actually you are “stupid”. You gtfo out of the car scene, you and your goober little friends and their caravans of slow ass VW Jetta’s need to GTFO!

      • Project D 14 September 2012 at 2:53 am #

        Screw you, dude. I dabble in Jettas that bullcrap ricers can’t even touch on the open road. =P

        That being said, I hate slammed cars. Just today I was pulling an old VW Bus into the shop so slammed it ground the front bumper into the driveway no matter what angle you rolled in at. Rode like crap, too, even for an old Bus. But bottoming out aside, what I hate most about hellaflush is putting too skinny tires on to wide wheels. That’s dangerous as all hell! The sidewalls weren’t designed to flex like that while holding a load on most of these cars. A lot of these guys are risking their lives and the lives of others every time they take it up to speed. Unacceptable. And retarded. Pay to do it right, or don’t bother doing it at all.

  5. maskedturbo 11 May 2010 at 3:46 am #

    just pointing out, that although you think hellaflush is stupid, did you ever stop to consider the fact that no one gives a shit about your opinion? just my .02

    • Louie Lin 1 December 2011 at 7:56 pm #

      People obviously do, given the 188 comments and the fact that you commented to inform him of the supposed lack of interest regarding his opinions (although I very strongly suspect your impassioned comment was simply a mask to hide your lack of debating skill). Read Huck Finn and you’ll learn to take off the masks, maskedturbo

  6. Jesse 11 May 2010 at 5:39 am #

    Just like noone gives a shit about your .02, and yeah I had considered it. However, since this is my site I can post up as many opinions as I'd like and there's pretty much nothing anyone can do about it.Of course I'm in the minority here, and realize that my opinion won't change anything and that plenty of people (both people I respect and people I don't) are going to love and participate in this movement. I wouldn't normally say anything, but it's had a lot of hype in the past couple years, and I don't understand why.If you feel like explaining it in a way that makes sense, I'd be happy to post your counter-argument here.

  7. Jesse 11 May 2010 at 5:40 am #

    In that case, I'm not in the “import scene”. I'm just into cars, especially agile, fast cars.

    • Aric 26 November 2012 at 6:46 pm #

      Your argument makes no sense.

      • Jesse O'Brien 26 November 2012 at 7:10 pm #

        You didn’t even bother to type an argument or explanation.

  8. Ricardo Guillen 11 May 2010 at 6:53 pm #

    Just Show off !

  9. RichMan 13 June 2010 at 4:39 am #

    but saabs arent cool…id go for a bently with massive camber and stretched tires instead

  10. Sr20det240sx 16 June 2010 at 6:46 am #

    u mad?my S14 is hellaflush and is daily driven. wat

    • Quertreiber 18 March 2011 at 2:21 pm #

      Right. My MK2 GTI Syncro(syncro means AWD) was hellaflush 10 years ago. A few years before that “word” went around the world.
      It looked hellaflush (without streched tirewalls), frontwheels sunk 2-3 cm in the wheelhouse, but the supension worked perfect an there was no Tyrescrubbing in the wheelhouse (otherwise it isn’t streetlegal in germany).
      The funny thing is that the car was build for maximum supension performance and the look was a side effect.

      @Rafe
      air ride is the biggest bullshit i ve evre seen. It only good for show cars. If its low the it is soft, is it high, then it is hard. Should be the other way round, high-soft low-hard.

      • Jesse 20 March 2011 at 3:37 am #

        That makes you the antithesis of what this article is about. You went for performance, and ended up looking good in the process. I didn’t know VW ever even MADE an AWD mk2, but you’ve certainly piqued my interest.

        • BennyMarvelle 25 March 2013 at 2:44 pm #

          you never seen a Mk2 Rallye? go check it out

  11. Jesse 16 June 2010 at 2:24 pm #

    Hell no, I'm not mad. That's pure driver badassery right there. My problem is when cars get turned into trailer queens because some knob decided to do too much work without enough planning about what the result will be. More than anything, I'm interested to see your Nissan. I almost bought one instead of my BMW, but got too good a deal on the German pile of overcomplicated engineering to pass it up.I respect anything that's driven daily. Hell, I love Yuta Akaishi's 240z, and that thing barely crawls along the ground. He daily drives it though, so it gets my thumbs up.

  12. irish 19 June 2010 at 3:51 am #

    I think I don't have whatever gene that makes people appreciate cars (or anything) for purely cosmetic reasons. A lot of people do, and pour ungodly amounts of time into things that I see no advantage to. I'm consistently perplexed by it. I definitely appreciate the amount of work, and the quality of work they receive, but I just don't understand what would possess a person to spend that kind of time and effort on looking cool. So really, I agree to disagree, and get a little chuckle out of how many people get irrationally angry at some stranger on the other end of the internet with a website (that stranger would be me).Also, you caught me red-handed. It's really not RICE. Nothing about them is race inspired. I guess I just got carried away when I wrote this. The Falcon was a work in progress. I used that picture as a reference. It's seen a lot of work since then, and is significantly more impressive now. If you subscribe to the RSS feed for this site, you'll hear about it soon, after the new exhaust has been fitted and the turbos are — wait. That's quite enough information for now.Glad you stopped by!

  13. Slo300 19 June 2010 at 3:35 am #

    Odd i came upon this site to read this. Your points are valid however this is just your view. The whole reason i've went from building something that was faster in a straight line to what i have now. I currently Daily Drive a lexus SC 300. It's sitting on some work meister rims however it isn't hellaflush but i'm getting to that point. However that's just me. Onto your point of subject -The reason why i like hellaflush: The car looks great parked and crusing. You see so much money poured into these cars and they are kept clean! These owners take great care of their cars and meanwhile not being fast just showing another “era” of the scene. To me it shows alot car owners proud of what they have made. On the other hand when you say trailor'd cars there will always be those. Some people just have to much money and are trying to fit in, Let em be! But, I enjoy all cars that are hellaflush.And oh it's NOT RICE. Rice is considered to be some poor crap like the falcon u posted when the owner is to poor to do it right or to lazy to finish it. Many stickers and wings also aid this but when ur sitting on 4k worth of rims and tires, i'm sorry but that's far from rice.

    • Pj 2 May 2013 at 2:36 am #

      Slo300 says it all +1

  14. seung 25 June 2010 at 7:21 pm #

    good post… could not agree more. “hella dumb.”

  15. kingxcore 27 June 2010 at 11:33 pm #

    This Post is hellastupid. Being hellaflush isnt about cosmetics it is about having very good wheel fitment, which apparently looks good. Stop hating and do your own thing bro maybe being slammed and flush isn't your thing, but why waste your time making this? The answer is you are a hater and will always be a hater. Make sure when the next fad comes around you hate on it too!Kingxcore

    • DT 24 February 2012 at 6:59 am #

      I’m not a hater, but when I see something that is so retarded, so ugly and so ghetto like I do when I see one of these hella flush cars I just have to say something. 10 years from now you will look back and say to yourself what the f*ck was I thinking having my car looked like that. Believe me when I say this, if you were were in Beverly Hills or Malibu driving a car like that the first thing people will say is “What the hell is this clown doing here?”

      Even the word “hella” sound retarded. when i hear people use that word it just makes them appear like they’re trying too hard. I look at you younger generations and your style and say who myself what the f*uck is this world coming to? I had one dying wish I wished these hella flush guys would be smart enough to see that look like a bunch of wack ass bustas. Again I’m not a hater but when I see something that isn’t right I just have to say something.

      • Willis 3 May 2012 at 10:53 am #

        You know what is retarded? Replying to a 2 year old blog post.

        • Jesse O'Brien 3 May 2012 at 11:13 am #

          But wait … didn’t you just repl–

          ahhh, I see what you did there!

  16. Momentofdecision79 5 July 2010 at 6:22 pm #

    “Try to tuck your entire wheel and tire into the wheelwells.” you must not have observed much about the hellaflush movement, anyone who tucks rim is a moron, and im pretty sure anyone who knows about being hellaflush (obviously not you), will agree with that. in order to tuck rim, your wheels have to be sunk in….not flush. also…true flush isnt negative camber…true flush is zero camber. also yes…backspacing is important…but if yr rollin on 7in wide wheels, with spacers…..you get laughed at. it's key to have wide wheels with the right offset, which, even you in yr infinite knowledge said wide wheels are completely functional. on the same note, the majority of people who go hellaflush use coilovers to lower their vehicle. also functional…i drift (straight lines are just too boring), so having coilovers and aftermarket suspension links, to stiffen the ride and reduce body roll is a godsend. most of the cars you see on hellaflush are drift cars as well. the nearest track from where i live, is actually a pretty small track, but the outer oval is still an 80-85mph entry, minimum, i really would like to see yr stock ride height falcon survive that roll over (although it's a tank. haha. i also have a 1966 chevy c-10…those things are invincible). therefore, you are an idiot in saying they are undriveable. the sort of agility and response good suspension links and coilovers provide are extremely benificial for the daily driver….now, thats not me getting “irrationally angry”, thats just me callin them as i see them.now in the defense of those who go hellaflush, you mentioned the satnce of the cars as the only concern of the drivers. but my car alone, which is flush, has a 2-liter 4cylinder that has pulled C6 corvettes without any effort. in fact, i would say around 75 percent of these cars have SR20's, or 1 and2JZ's, or RB's that are making like 400,500, or even 600hp to the wheels. you like fast cars? look to most of these cars for fast.im not talkin shit, dude…but i think you need to research stuff before you knock it.

  17. noname 26 July 2010 at 4:34 pm #

    its amazing that you post something that you hate, would’nt do it and totally have no respect for.One, its a hobby to others that love and enjoy doin it.Two, for me being in the H.F. scene for a while i have not seen or herd any disrespect and negative remark towards any other vehicle style culture. So why make this post all your doin is startin up similar old news (imports dissin muscle and muscle dissin imports).
    On a personal note i drive a Honda CRX and its flushed and i love it, get off the hate drug and do your own thing and enjoy it with others that are doin the same thing you are doing. There’s no point into hating another culture that enjoys meeting up eating and talkin about the wheels, how slammed it is ect.Cause you might do the same thing but about different parts so jus chill and enjoy your Hobby and let others enjoy there’s

  18. Matt 28 July 2010 at 9:02 am #

    I would have to completely agree. Its all show, no go. Good article!

  19. Derk Diggler 28 July 2010 at 1:48 pm #

    “Being hellaflush isnt about cosmetics it is about having very good wheel fitment, which apparently looks good”

    having “good” wheel fitment when it can screw up performance but you think it looks good isn’t cosmetic?
    sounds like RIIIIIICE..

    as for the hobby point..yeah people have hobbies that they have fun with..a lot of them are respectable..and others are just stupid..this article is pointing out how people are having fun doing something that doesn’t make sense..its like seeing POS cars with bigass wings and pep boys racing stickers who need to grow up and stop playing with their car like its some hotwheels speedracershit with hubcaps…its embarrassing

  20. Jesse 29 July 2010 at 11:51 am #

    Mike,

    I’ve seen that video, and have to admit that I hadn’t given stance:nation a fair once-over. It’s great that you’re defending the functional cars, but they’re not under attack here. The cars that I’m complaining about are the over-stretched, cut-spring’ed, dangerous vehicles that I see on the street far more often than the functional ones.

    As far as the falcon goes, I’m pretty sure I mentioned that it has a few downsides that should be worked out, but it isn’t losing any chance of performing reliably in order to look cool (again, I’m not saying all stanced cars can’t perform).

    • trooper t 20 March 2011 at 1:43 pm #

      get over it, you dont see anyone making fun of your minivan. people will do whatever they want to to their cars. who are you to call out the people like that like these kind of cars? you obviously have nothing better going on in your life that you need to put down, the once, originality that has become aa huge and widely know scene. grow up.

    • Chris 13 June 2011 at 6:10 pm #

      Like the sticker says: “Hellaflush! Haters gon hate!” different people have different taste, get over it. but on the other hand yes, some hellaflush cars are way too cambered and are dangerous driving around. but why would you dedicate so much time talkin crap talkin about stenced cars in general?!? Learn to respect other people with their differences. I think nascar sucks and is for a bunch of rednecks that have nothing better to do with their lives than run around a track but do u see me wastin important time of a short life talkin down about it on the internet? NOPE! But if they like it so much i can respect that. anyway it’s better that kids dedicate to that instead of running around causin trouble and messin with drugs. and jesse i see u on stancenation.com an dima quote you:

      “The beginning of this post got me excited: Maybe I’ll finally find out what form+function in an aggressively stretched/stanced car is like.

      But I really think I’m still missing something. It looks like a really clean car, but it doesn’t make sense in a mechanical engineering sort of way (and isn’t that how cars are designed?). Perhaps I’m being overanalytical, but I still don’t see this car as being functional. I wouldn’t be able to get on an onramp where I live without at least a few inches of suspension travel, and this Z is already practically on the ground.

      It’s possible that you’re right, and it’s just an acquired taste that I’m not used to yet, so I’ll take a look around the site and try to see the light.”

      that’s right! nott all stanced cars are non-functional. Good lookin out Potna.

      • Jesse 13 June 2011 at 7:07 pm #

        Chris, I haven’t been on StanceNation in awhile, since I’ve been dealing with a whole pile of other projects, but I may end up heading back in the near future. I found a few builds on there that I really liked and respected, but I’m afraid most of this ‘movement’ is missing the purpose of cars. I’m all for modifications, whether they’re speed-related, comfort-related, or even cosmetic, but I still see a lot of people who sacrifice practicality and (other peoples’) safety for a more aggressive looking stance. Just this past week I read about a kid who got a ticket for losing control of his car temporarily, and his excuse to the cop was “It’s not my fault, my car has too much camber” … I’m not kidding. This is what the stance movement has made people believe is an acceptable practice.

  21. Mike 29 July 2010 at 10:24 am #

    your a moron… I drive my “stanced, hellaflush, whatever you want to call it” car every day with no issues. I have it that way because I think it looks good. There are all kinds of cars that serve all different purposes, not everyone takes there car to the track. And not all stanced cars handle badly! There has been several cars lately that have so greatly improved there suspension to have perfect wheel fitment and also be able to haul ass around a track without rubbing at all….
    case in point:
    http://www.stancenation.com/2010/07/28/one-bad-texan/
    http://www.awol.tv/episodes/1?episode=89

    Your falcon was obviously not designed to do everything (like be able to go around a corner worth crap, like a sti or evo) and stanced cars arent designed to go up steep driveways big deal

    • Bradley 19 January 2012 at 12:30 pm #

      Honestly, that first link made no point in backing up the stance point of view. There was no argument involved, they were simply pandering by saying that people who disagree with the stance lifestyle should read this. It was full of false arguments; for instance how can they say that the Z they were talking about was as practical as a stock Z? That car would simply struggle going over a normal speed bump and badly scrape going up any slightly inclined driveway. Just beacuse they took a few pictures of a stanced Z on a track doing some drifting doesn’t prove that an entire culture is justified in their actions. Do you think that one levelheaded, logical and moral politician would have any credibility saying that all politicians are equally just? No. The beauty of cars lies in a balance of all aspects. Performance, asthetics, and functionality are intertwined. This fad is an immature desire to take one of those aspects to the extreme. I don’t think anyone would be able to realistically say that this fad will be popular in 10-20 years. Certain automotive fads have come and gone. Some have stayed. This one will fade away like many other sad attempts at automotive creativity.

  22. kim 30 July 2010 at 10:17 pm #

    ok hellaflush sucks.
    its not WHAT they are doing but HOW they are doing it.
    these kids build their car for the internet, to show it off and get E PROPS for having wheels that they actually dont like THAT much, but buy because the internet likes them.

    here in japan, a lot of guys that have done up cars dont post them on the internet. its so much cooler because they are not trying to impress everyone.

    some hella flush faglace cars look good, yes…. as i said before, its not WHAT they are doing but HOW they are doing it.

  23. Rafe 31 July 2010 at 12:01 am #

    Couldn’t agree with you more Jesse. I think it’s a cool look….but besides that, dumb as wheels that spin when you’re car is not in motion. The right way to do it would be with an air-ride suspension. You could get the “flush” look when parked but then raise it so that it could actually be driven.

    And we don’t say wicked all THAT much ;P

    Go Sox!

    -Rafe (originally from Lakeville, Mass)

    • Jesse 13 October 2011 at 9:54 am #

      Go Sox indeed, Rafe! This year was quite an interesting (and disappointing) season. I agree that air-ride suspension is the best way to do it, but the whole scene seems to frown upon that, preferring static suspension that’s undriveable. I honestly don’t understand what the hype is about. They look interesting, but not nearly as cool as an athletic-looking performance-based vehicle.

  24. John 3 August 2010 at 4:37 pm #

    i dont know where you go to look at cars but you definitely are not looking at proper vehicles. you are talking about ricer POS cars at ricer shows. you clearly have not seen proper HELLAFLUSH cars. they DON’T have cut springs and they are done clean. plus, if you do not like this “hellaflush movement” so much, dont participate.

  25. Zac 3 August 2010 at 10:59 pm #

    would you like to bash on the VIP culture too?

    its true that some people that take it to the extreme…but most of those guy build SHOW cars to BE shown off…DUH.

    i have a Daily driven car that has a pretty aggressive stance to say no cut springs i have COILOVERS. i do track my car once and a while sometimes even autocross…

    the point is, this is the new generation car culture along with our tons of aftermarket parts and the exchange from huge steel coffins rolling down the street to the plastic rockets we have now. the stance scene is here to stay. either adapt or get left behind.

    • i hate the hellaflush scene a waste of parts 4 October 2011 at 6:00 pm #

      Wow u can tell you have a civic with neg 5 front camber and 3 in the rear that car would just fail on a track

  26. mychal 4 August 2010 at 6:52 pm #

    First off, thank you Zac, most of these car are made as “SHOW CARS” to be SHOWN-OFF.Rafe please do some research, where have you seen “HellaFlush” cars with spinners? Theres a difference between Dub and HellaFlush,Dub is all about big chrome rims sometimes seen with spinners. Hellaflush doesnt require you to have big rims, half the time these cars rims are less than 18 inches and most do have air suspension to be driven with less of a hassle. Kim, from what you’ve said, I suspect you’re from Japan where the hellaflush movement came from which is originally called VIP. I see why you think its better done in Japan,because thats where the roots come from. Its the same with any other culture its always best from the roots. Back to the matter hellaflush is just like import, hot rod, rat rod etc. they all have their ‘requirements’ to be a part of that movement. I dont care what kind of culture you flow with muscle, import, exotic, hellaflush, rat rod or dub, If you were a true car enthusiast you would love cars for what they are, and if you can’t, then simply stay away from this movement.

  27. Gollum 4 August 2010 at 7:36 pm #

    “adapt or get left behind”…. behind who? I’m not anti-flush, I’m just not pro-flush, if that makes any sense. I won’t tell people not to do it, but I’ll do my best to make sure THEY know why THEY’RE doing it.

    It’s right up there with the low-rider movement to me. Sure it might look cool, but it’s about the looks, plain and simple.

    The real hardcore racers of the 50′s, 60′s and 70′s never even considered lowering their cars for looks, but if they did it was for a performance increase alone. The low-riders were the flip side of the car hobby, and that’s exactly what we’re seeing today. One group that wants their street cars to PERFORM first and foremost, and one that says LOOKS FIRST, and if they’re intelligent they make sure they don’t destroy the performance while they’re at it.

    And what’s with all this huff and buff about “coilovers mean it’s good” crap? I’ve seen so many cars with coilovers that have such shitty settings that the car could never be driven hard on a track, or even on the street. And to me “rich” doesn’t mean “cheap, shoddy work” it’s always meant “dumbass pointless mod” to me, LONG before the “FnF” movement. Just because someone puts 10k into their “daily driven stanced car” doesn’t mean it’s good, or smart to me.

    But does that mean you shouldn’t do it? By all means, go ahead. You people give contrast to people like me that would remove any useless piece from my car I could do with out in order to save a sliver of weight. We’re all into cars, I’m just here to be me, and I don’t care if I’m in the “in” group with the “stancers”

  28. John 4 August 2010 at 11:30 pm #

    I agree with Zac, there are car SHOWS for a reason. And a whole variety of aftermarket parts for virtually any car that is made in the world. Not all car showing people get together for bragging. Most of the people get together to meet other new people who have the same hobby, not only to just show off cars. This is a hobby, what you guys are saying is the same thing as a person building models just to show them off.It’s what they are for, It’s a hobby, learn your shit, deal with it.

  29. Jesse 5 August 2010 at 9:05 am #

    I’ve always viewed Dub and Stance as pretty similar movements, and the “new” rat rod movement.  They’re both about achieving a particular look with performance as a secondary or tertiary concern. Hobbies are fine, but when a car no longer passes a road safety inspection, it’s a danger to everyone on (or around) the road.Mychal, maybe you can clear up a little confusion for me.  Is air ride frowned upon in the stance community, or is it an advantage?  I don’t personally care for air ride, but it seems to make a lot of sense for stanced cars.

  30. sean 6 August 2010 at 9:41 pm #

    hahahaha. this whole article is stupid. you all sound like a bunch of outta touch old men. who cares what people are doing to their cars. we’ve built cars with good amount of offset and pretty much on its nuts, and didn’t have any problem daily driving them and taking them to the track. mine was even doing a 50 mile daily commute plus bi monthly track duty. no problems. but screw you guys though, just because we aren’t doing what you are doing, we suddenly become idiots, even when it takes all kinds of thought into suspension dynamics to do stancing correctly. and i’m sorry, but that falcon is not “hellaflush” you nerd. it’s hellasunkenbattleship. get your terminology down…

  31. John 7 August 2010 at 11:08 am #

    if it doesn’t pass safety inspection..then DON’T drive it. idiots.

  32. danger dave 7 August 2010 at 3:49 pm #

    *njam* what you call hella flush was out in the 90s in austria – kind of funny you’ve that now… *lol*

  33. who cares 8 August 2010 at 1:13 am #

    lmao..haters gonna hate
    its cool that your expressing you opinion
    but my opinion is that we dont all have to “functional”
    i daily drive my “hellaflush” car..yeah some driveways are a pita..but i deal with it

  34. matt 10 August 2010 at 6:45 am #

    Can’t drive on the highways or track? Are you serious? Mine drives fine slammed. I guess you guys are a bunch of country rednecks that have dirt roads to drive your lifted up rust bucket falcons on. You know its a style just like tubbed out mullet cars that can’t make u turns. No matter what people do there is someone that is going to be so jealous that they make a thread about it. You can get as technical as you want with your deffinition and puncuation but it all boils down to you looking at your rusted out 50 year old mullet driving 8 track playing 6 cylender cash for clunker car you own and being jealous of our style of cars. People like you should just mind there business and not worry about what other people are doing. Then maybe you won’t be so bent out of shape like your falcon.

    • Freddie 9 September 2012 at 5:48 pm #

      I’m glad the very definition of jealousy is not lost on you people, and haters gonna hate is plain dumb, and for people saying you just don’t know how to drive over bumps, and inclines, is also retarded, I’m glad the stanced guys all live in cities, with perfectly level roadways, and driveways with no speedbumps or grade changes whatsoever. Oh but you guys say oh just deal with it you know it’s going to scrape, well it wouldn’t scrape if it was fully functional. On the stanced website, one guy said oh so you can’t go over speed bumps, or get on the on ramp to the highway, well you just need to plan for it, and drive out of your way to get to point B, because it’s fully functional. Yeah it if it’s fully functional you would be able to get onto on ramps, and over bumps. Sorry fellas I love the look of SOME of these cars, but at shows. Also sorry for the rant.

  35. lawl 10 August 2010 at 7:51 am #

    A car is like a girl and If you put things that way… i bet your girlfriend is ugly as hell but knows how to get it rockin in the bedroom lol!

  36. jovan 12 August 2010 at 10:44 am #

    wow this guy is just a hater i drive my hellaflush in LA which has the worst highways by far with no problems your just mad cause you cant afford to have a one of a kind car

  37. SteveSan 13 August 2010 at 7:48 pm #

    @jovan: If everyone is hellaflush, then its not so one-of-a-kind anymore lol
    Just sayin.

  38. peppercorn 14 August 2010 at 8:45 pm #

    each to their own..if someone wants to slam their car with wide wheels its their choice if u dont like it get over it!..i prefer a lower car which is flush, but the cops here are fair harse on that kind of thing. hellaflush all the way.

  39. big H 16 August 2010 at 4:05 am #

    i think every bidy is intitled to like what ever modifieng style they want even if it is impracticle

  40. Author is a Hater 16 August 2010 at 9:02 pm #

    You should have obviously already knew that they do this for the LOOKS and not for ride comfort or excellent drivability! Now what is your problem with that?

  41. Joe Bloow 18 August 2010 at 4:21 pm #

    ummmmmmmm, hellaflush has to do with drifting.

  42. Jesse 19 August 2010 at 4:56 pm #

    I wasn’t writing about drift at all. I really don’t have a problem with drifting at all. I have a problem with street cars which haven’t been engineered at all. Your S14 is also an entirely different discussion, you put thought and engineering into how it drives, not just how it parks. You aren’t one of the morons I was writing about when I wrote this, but thanks for stopping by and tossing in your $0.02. Maybe you should visit the forum thread and read all the comments, and see what the discussion is all about?

    As far as the Falcon goes, I find it hard to complain about the reliability of a car that’s been a daily driver for over 50 years, but I’m not a huge fan of Ford as a general rule either. All manufacturers make good cars and bad cars, and on my little slice of the internet, the Falcon is one of the good cars.

  43. Fatty 19 August 2010 at 3:35 pm #

    I have an S14 that has a wide as hell set of rims and tires with a slight roll on the sidewalls that performs and functions better than factory. Where it turns into retardation is those guys who will run a 5 inch drop and a -78 degrees of rear camber to tuck a drag racing width wheel under a honda. So if you buy the proper equipment like adjustable arms and rollcenter adjusters along with subframe bushings that move your subrame farther up into the chassis and a proper alignment you can have a “hellasick” (LOL) look with it being functional as well. so i think the author doesnt understand the scene all that well.

  44. Fatty 19 August 2010 at 3:38 pm #

    And the fact that the author is fixing up a Found On Road Dead Falcon isnt saying a whole lot. Hey author, do you have a clue about the whole drift scene at all???

  45. bruce 21 August 2010 at 4:42 pm #

    How would you recommend a car to look, 20 inch wheels on a camaro with fire decals? Alot of shit you see on tuned cars looks uneccesary but it’s personal taste besides this
    style looks alot better on sedans and such, vip style craps on donks and hot rods any day.

  46. Gollum 21 August 2010 at 10:17 pm #

    I love how so many people assume the Falcon is Jesse’s… He only mentioned it to make a point, and I thought that was obvious…

    And I think the whole air of the post is more getting to the point of “it’s amazing how many stuipd people there are doing stupid things” so much so that there’s an entire movement in the car industry now dedicated to mostly useless mods. It’s worse than the “body kit” movement of the 90′s because most of these people are actually making their cars dangerous to drive on the street.

    I guess I’m starting to sound like an old man, so I’ll just shut it.

    Although to counteract my own point, some called the hot rods of the 60′s with huge drag radials driven on the street to be “dangerous” too. But to my eyes those mods weren’t for looks first, thus they get my nod of respect for their era.

  47. Nasty Nate 22 August 2010 at 9:27 pm #

    Men will be men right? Its their money and they can spend it how ever they want. I mos-def agree that it is all cosmetic now-a-days and I’d rather see peoples autocrossing or some sort of racing than putting miles on your car going to car meets. Cars are meant to be pushed to the limits. Hella Flush is interesting.

  48. Andre Mulyadi 23 August 2010 at 1:47 am #

    im agree in several of your opinion… Hellaflush is just a style, trend.. in my country, so many stock cars with variations of colourfull wheels, and they call theyself with hellaflush minded????? hohoho…. lets modified with passion, and lets the hella being flush :p

  49. Karmann 23 August 2010 at 8:19 pm #

    Why you suck:

    1.- You feel the need to hate and criticize something you don’t understand.

    2.- You’re a hypocrite, because if you were concerned purely on the functional, you’d just drive a stock, current model corolla. Your “need for speed” is just as frivolous, unnecessary, superficial, and impractical, as these peoples “need to look good”.

    3.-It’s just a hobby, it’s supposed to be fun, calling it “dumb”, when quite obviously these people are well versed in fitment, camber, offsets, tire sizes, suspension geometries, etc., is missing the point, these people know that it’s not practical, for petes sake one of the major groups is called “wrong fitment crew”, and another ones slogan is “form>function”, but that’s how they enjoy their cars, and they know damned well what they’re doing.

    4.-You probably say it’s just a fad, and you’re probably right, but so what!? isn’t everything!? My current car isn’t “flush” it’s set up for trackdays, but before that I was really into drifting, and before that I was really into drag racing, and before that I was REALLY into classic cars, tastes evolve, even though I’m not currently “flush”, I can still admire the hard work put into some of those cars, and if i could have a second ride, I’d probably build a nice “Hellaflush” style car in a heartbeat and drive it every friggin’ day!

    5.-You’re so closed minded that you’ll probably just disregard this comment.

  50. Sheridan 25 August 2010 at 2:04 am #

    Yeah… Karmann just won, by like… hella
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    flush

  51. Michael May 26 August 2010 at 9:00 pm #

    Nice comment Karmann! You certainly have the right idea here. No need to hate on these guys. I drive my Corrado daily and don’t have the hella flush stance but I can appreciate how it looks. I also appreciate how my car handles in the corners too.

  52. Pete 31 August 2010 at 3:40 pm #

    Flush is fine. The OEs used to be silly about having the outer sidewall WAY inboard of the fender lip. IMO, that looks bad. The car enthusiasts would modify by putting the outer sidewall “flush” with the fender lip. Not by using a skinny tire on a wide rim, but by widening the rim and using a tire in the recommended width for that wheel width.

    The problem becomes one of steering and suspension geometry. If you don’t modify it to have the kingpin inclination axis hit the ground at the center width of the tire contact patch, you create a moment arm that will try to steer the wheel. So the geometry must be correct or you get an ill-handling car.

    It’s stuff like that will make the hellaflushed car handle like crap if its not done right – which means a good bit of suspension/steering mods done at the same time.

    But you can’t expect the typical car person to understand that. What the typical car person goes after first is usually looks. And just like slamming a car without keeping a decent amount of bump travel is unsafe, so can be hellaflushing if you just slap wheels,spacers,tires on it to make it look hella flush without considering all the PERFORMANCE and safety problems that are created if it’s not done correctly.

  53. isen7 5 September 2010 at 6:03 pm #

    look, it all boils down to personal preference. some people like fast cars, some people like slammed cars, some people like lifted trucks to take off road and some people just drive cars to get from point a to point b. Some people want to go fast, some want to grab attention from others, some want to drive on dirt trails and some just want to go to go to target.

    While you may think it is stupid because the handling might be poor or the ride is bad they might think someone with a big turbo on their 1.8t is stupid because it leads to lots of problems, they may think, “why didn’t you just buy an R32 or something faster in the first place) Just appreciate that people are into cars because that only opens up the aftermarket companies to make more items for all car enthusiats to buy.

    I personally can appreciate all cars whether its a track prepped porsche or its a 300c on bags. Its all a matter of personal taste just like everything else (food, women, clothes, architecture, books, movies, etc) Its what makes the world great, variety.

    • Jesse 6 September 2010 at 6:20 am #

      You’re missing the point. I can’t condone any vehicle on the road that endangers everyone else on the road. I’m not arguing against cars being slow. Plenty of cars I wholeheartedly approve of are very slow, but they aren’t a hazard to other people. What I’m arguing against are the hackjobs that are the majority of slammed/flush/stanced cars (there are certainly some well-engineered ones too).

      • Shann 18 August 2011 at 8:47 am #

        Those Hellaflush “hackjobs” are just as hazardous or dangerous to others on the road as racer “hackjobs”.
        I personally think a car that’s too fast for the inexperienced to drive is just as dangerous on the road as a car that’s too finnicky for the inexperienced to drive.
        At the end of the day all cars on the road are a danger and a hazard, that’s no reason to cry down someone else’s sense of style and personal preference.
        Your argument is biased and close-minded.

        • Jesse 18 August 2011 at 9:03 am #

          I haven’t seen a plethora of racer hackjobs lately, otherwise I’d write an article specifically dedicated to them as well. I have seen a massive influx of hellaflush hackjobs lately, and they really are worrying. I’ve been considering writing another article on Rat Rods, some of which are downright deadly.

          There are lots of dangers on the road, and I’m not saying ALL hellaflush cars are dangerous. Some are done really nicely and don’t compromise the car’s ability to perform. I’m merely pointing out why hellaflush sucks: because the barriers to entry are so low and because creating a hackjob that doesn’t work safely is widely considered a good thing.

          • IHOPEYOUUNDERSTAND 4 March 2014 at 11:34 pm #

            Dear god Safety this and Safety that have you ever walked down the street? Lots of things to go wrong, so according to you thats stupid. You’ve driven down the road right? again lots of things to go wrong, but this time you endanger other people. Sooooo I guess your stupid for driving down the road

  54. TDB 9 September 2010 at 11:13 am #

    It’s so incredibly ironic how this “stance” movement came about. Back in the 80’s and 90’s people started installing stiffer, lower suspensions on their cars to improve handling. The perceived improvement in appearance was an afterthought not the main goal. It all started out with relatively small drops and carefully selected spring rates and valving that actually made vehicles perform better. (What a concept!) Before long people were chopping springs and the super-low springs came around. We started to lose our way…

    In the late 90’s coilovers came into dominance. They were originally intended to be a step-up the performance ladder more towards a track oriented suspension. The adjustability of coilovers was meant to be used for performance – corner weighting, geometry correction, etc. Somewhere along the way it became popular to just spin them down the whole way. Sadly, this was the beginning of the end. Performance coilovers were surpassed by budget coilovers that were marketed to this “spun down” crowd. Now most of the so-called ‘performance’ coils on the market are total crap – worse than a standard shock/strut & spring setup.

    The stance movement is extremely frustrating to performance-minded enthusiasts that have been around to watch all this develop. (I am not claiming to be an originator or a founder of any movement or ‘scene’. I have merely been around long enough to witness these changes. I’m old…) The stance craze has made the divide between utility & vanity wider than ever. The current crop of look-at-me showcars is so far gone to the side of form over function that they truly perform far WORSE than when they left the factory! What a tragedy. I find this sort of thing more acceptable with old lowriders and minitrucks because, lets face it, they really don’t have great performance potential. It’s just sad when people ruin a perfectly good car in the name of mindless FASHION.

    • Kyle 2 June 2012 at 11:36 pm #

      Negative camber (to an extent) improves handling, period! Vw, which I drive, comes with -1.5* of rear camber. So tell me why would a company engineer a their product this way if it was “unsafe” or “not functional” as you put it. I’m not going to sit here and bash you for not liking something; to each is own. But it’s kind “hella gay” that you’re bashing something that does serve a purpose, ie, correcting over or understeer or imrpoving handling in corners. Think before you blog people

  55. Z4life 12 September 2010 at 5:53 am #

    Your HELLA stupid. I’ve been to the track and always see hellaflush cars drifting and racing. PLUS if you don’t like it turn your stupid ass head and look the other way instead of wining and bitching about it. I don’t like lowriders very much but you don’t hear me bitching about it, I just look the other way. Hey, do me a favor and GET A LIFE!

    • Jesse 13 September 2010 at 7:52 am #

      Sorry, but I think you’ve missed the point of this article. The problem here is that some cars endanger others. Those which end up on a racetrack are prepped for it and aren’t endangering anyone else. Take some of those same cars and put them on the street, and you’ll see sparks fly as they bounce off the road. If a car is engineered to be driven on the street, that’s not one of the cars I’m talking about.

  56. Jerry 14 September 2010 at 9:32 am #

    Serious man? Just because you don’t agree with a certain “movement” or “trend” doesn’t mean it “sucks”. You do have a right to freedom of speech and It’s cool that you speak out but in all honesty if people like there cars a certain way does it really effect you? Like just because there sitting slammed and flushed is it physically or emotionally hurting you?

  57. chris G 18 September 2010 at 6:56 pm #

    your article is a waste of space. guess u dont realize its for SHOW dumbass.. learn about what your writing before you write this uselesss article. dumbass

  58. Why the article "Why Hellaflush Sucks" Hella Sucks 19 September 2010 at 8:30 am #

    “The problem here is that some cars endanger others.”

    Your argument is flawed. Every DRIVER on the road, regardless of what car they’re driving, endangers others. The DRIVER:

    - blazing through the freeways at 100mph in a Honda Fit
    - that just ran a red light/stop sign in a Lincoln Navigator
    - talking on their cellphone, putting on their makeup, etc. while driving in a XYZ

    endangers others.

    “They aren’t allowed on self-respecting racetracks”

    Proof? How about Ken Gushi’s Scion tC?

    http://www.formulad.com/IMAGES/DRIVER_BANNERS/Ken-Gushi.jpg
    http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/04/12_rsr_scion_tc.jpg

    Sources: http://www.formulad.com/drivers/ken-gushi.html, http://www.autoblog.com/photos/rs-r-formula-drift-scion-tc/#741406

    That looks HellaFlush to me. Now if I recall correctly, I believe I saw his car, earlier this year, at Round 1 of Formula D which happens to take place on the Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach Street Course. Gasp….oh no! That means his HellaFlush car was on a “self-respecting” racetrack! One of many racetracks as Formula D takes place all over the nation.

    “have troubles on the highway”

    How so?

    “Take some of those same cars and put them on the street, and you’ll see sparks fly as they bounce off the road.”

    Really? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjBch3bYNp0&feature=related. Maybe I’m blind, but I didn’t see a single spark.

    “and if your driveway is graded, they’ll park on the street.”

    A HellaFlush car is parked on the street doesn’t mean it can’t make it up a driveway (which is what your trying to imply). Tell me….what’s wrong with parking on the street? What if I visit a friends house that has a single car graded driveway and the driveway is already occupied by their car? Should I tell them to move it so I can park it in their driveway? What about any car that parks on the street? Are all of those cars “hella dumb”?

    How about lifted trucks? Where’s the practicality in that for street driving? Certainly the owner couldn’t have lifted their truck for “Efficiency, performance, and safety.”

    “In its study, her group modified a 1992 Ford F-150 four-wheel-drive pickup, a standard-size pickup, with a 3-inch body lift, a suspension raised 4 inches, and 38-inch tires. It found that the risk of rolling over in braking tests increased to more than 40 percent, from a normal risk of 10 to 20 percent. The oversize tires reduced braking performance 20 to 25 percent.”

    Source: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/041101/1trucks.htm

    “Sorry, but I think you’ve missed the point of this article.”

    And I think you missed the point of being HellaFlush. It’s a style, personal preference, etc. Just like how wearing all black, having every body part pierced, etc is a personal preference and a style.

    “Essentially, I see the hellaflush movement as a direct replacement for the show car movement. Both are idiotic in the same, undriveable, RICE ways.”

    If you had some strong/valid arguments and sources to back up your claims, I’d commend you on your article. But your arguments are weak beyond belief and they merely paint you as being an ignorant person “hating” on a group of people for no good reason. Needless to say, this article is “idiotic.”

    • Jesse 20 September 2010 at 5:45 am #

      I wish this comment had a valid email, I’m interested in hearing more from you.

    • Shann 18 August 2011 at 8:53 am #

      Whoever you are, where ever you are in the world, I would like to buy you an ice cold Heineken.
      *cheers*

  59. johnny 20 September 2010 at 2:10 pm #

    “Why the article “Why Hellaflush Sucks” Hella Sucks”
    this comment is %110 true and is what i would say exactly if i had the time. Jesse, your really immature and you don’t see hellaflush enthusiasts going around writing why lifted hummers suck. Id rather get hit by a spinning out of control hellflush ride than a soccer mom on her blackberry driving a 8ft tall hummer. your article was totally owned by everything said by hellaflush supporters on here

    • Jesse 20 September 2010 at 5:47 pm #

      I never said soccer moms who don’t pay attention to the road are ok, they’re every bit as bad… but they’ll never read this, or hear about it, or care even if they did. A few of the fitment supporters here have made excellent points, but the people this article was written about still exist, and from what I’ve seen they’re still in the majority.

      Never in my article did I say “Anyone affiliated with hellaflush is wrong”. That would be a lie. I can think of several perfect examples of beautiful hellaflush cars, such as Rauh Welt. My complaint was a generalization, just like saying “soccer moms don’t pay attention to the road”.

  60. xavier 27 September 2010 at 7:37 pm #

    damn your hella dumb dude. the cars are almost always bagged so that they can be driven on the road. the pictures are jsut taken when they are on the lowest setting

  61. SISKEL & EBERT 28 September 2010 at 10:39 am #

    Its just for style relax dude. To each there own. btw, you couldnt find a crappier pic of a ford falcon to prove your point????

  62. Jesse 29 September 2010 at 9:00 am #

    This is a perfect example of what I’m talking about when I say hellaflush is stupid for any streetable car:
    http://jalopnik.com/5651022/

  63. Blackout313 2 October 2010 at 12:44 pm #

    I know im late but let me add my 2 cents. I live in detroit. Every year i go to the detroit autorama. Every year a new car is crowned the riddler award. Now these cars on there platforms usually have millons of dollars invested into them, they are trailer queens and they do ride flush. Damn near every one of them does. So does that make them hella dumb. You say that style of car is dumb and not functional but ive seen ford rally cars driving on dearborn roads with no problems. So are the way they set there cars up for tarmac dumb even though they can handle of the street. If you diss that way of modding you midas well chip foose his cars are not shit unless you see them on the street or track. Im sure your definitely a american muscle fan. Well americans started it as you can tell by that falcon. next thing you’ll say lowriding is dumb. Its another form of modding. If you spent more time concentrating on your car youd problly would be further with what ever your driving.

    In the end i just say respect others. I love american cars along with foreign. I do not like the whole gasser thing but best believe i respect it. Also rather than worry about the 73 cutlass on 30′s im more worried about finally hitting 11′s. Do you and you will be more happier with yourself in life.

  64. zero 3 October 2010 at 8:30 am #

    FGS ppl… the point to this article is not hate… its precaution… the cars that are on the track and cambered are for a purpose less tire wear they have the body machined for that way…
    a home car or any car that isnt supposely to race on the track its in danger because adding camber witouth body work, suspension work, and differential work or even braking… all of that if are not looked they will start to wear more faster than stock i would say 60% more faster… thats why u always go to a street meeting and see the cars very lowered they run and puff a wheel has gone or the car in 2 years is not drivable because the chasis is cracked im not saying that u cant add negative camber to a car but do so that 1 stylish the car 2 modify the whole suspension system 3 that u dont have to take a bump and ending in a head trauma cuz ur head is colliding with the car roof every bump…

  65. chris 3 October 2010 at 12:34 pm #

    your just a hater!!! i drive a volkswagen that you could call “hellaflush” and i dont have any problem driving it either security problems or parking it …it actually has more stance and stability!!!
    buy ur self a jeep and shut up :)

  66. Jesse 4 October 2010 at 5:50 am #

    Chris, you (like many others) are missing the point of this article and essentially only read the title. Really, if your VW drives well, it has nothing to do with the cars I’m writing about here.

  67. Jesse 5 October 2010 at 1:41 pm #

    Eric, see my comment above. Your car drives like a car it’s intended to, it isn’t a car this article was targeted toward.

  68. Eric 5 October 2010 at 11:51 am #

    Every car can endanger other cars? I don’t understand your point? I think a soccer mom with no idea how much tire pressure she has in her tires, how much tread is left, or that person with the old ass car and shot springs/shocks is a more dangerous thing to worry about than people who actually LIKE their cars, do you have an article bitching about texting while driving? drunk driving? etc etc? Cars are dangerous, get over it…I don’t understand my cars on airride and flush…how is that endangering you?

  69. TDB 6 October 2010 at 7:12 am #

    You guys are hilarious… Getting your panties all in bunch because dude doesn’t agree with your opinion. Come on now. If you don’t agree fine, but if you are going to challenge his statements at least do it in a logical thought out manner. There is a big difference between rational debate and criticism versus bitching and whining and hating.

    The guy that referenced the TC drift car above obviously has no clue what kind of cars we are talking about. That TC he linked has NO stretch, NO poke, and it is NOT what the trendy kids would consider “hellaflush”. We are talking about cars taken to the extreme… you know: 10” wide wheels with a 205 width tire, extreme poke with the wheel extending 1” beyond the fender, etc etc. We are NOT talking about track cars with wider wheels and tires for performance. Such an argument just makes yourself look foolish.

    Are soccer moms and people texting and driving a hazard as well?? ABSOLUTELY! But its beside the point. This article was written for an auto enthusiast blog so it focuses on an enthusiast movement that is popular now. Everyone knows soccer moms and cell phones are dangerous. You don’t have to be an enthusiast to understand that. If you want to complain about that other stuff there are plenty of more mainstream avenues for that.

    It doesn’t matter if you go dumb-low via bags or static, the method is irrelevant for the most part. Either way you are stressing other components such as axles, CVs, balljoints, subframe, etc. Static may wear things out quicker than bags but you’re still stressing components beyond their design limits. Stretching tires is also obviously removing some margin of safety, because you are stretching outside the specs of the mfr.

    You guys are kidding yourselves if you honestly believe that there is no affect on stability – and therefore safety – of uberslammed and stretched cars. You’re also positively insane if you think slammed/dumped/hellaflush/canibeat/stanced cars are respectable on the track. You will get totally *laughed out* by the real racers if you show up with the crazy poke & stretch that is common to the show scene these days. Tune in and watch the LeMans series or any other racing… Find me one set of tires stretched to the fashionable “stanced” degree and I’ll stop debating. Bet you can’t.

    If you are into it purely for looks that’s on you. Just admit it AND don’t deny that you are compromising performance, safety, and durability. Because you are.

  70. ABCDE 6 October 2010 at 10:26 am #

    Pointless article..

    Obviously, you’re not the only one who doesn’t like hellaflush. But there’s no call for ‘hella dumb’ and such criticisms. Hellaflush is like fashion. It’s purely cosmetics. Would you call your mom dumb when she follows a new trend? It does come at a great expense..

    All hellaflush followers know what they’re doing and what they’re compromising. Don’t give people that crap ‘you don’t get the point of the article’ thingy when what you’ve done is criticized and listing pretty much only the cons.

    You said you targeted the article for those ‘people’ who doesn’t understand the risk of the many issues. How exactly did you differentiate that in your article? Don’t judge when you know nothing. Some of them too are concern about the issues you raised.

    ‘Efficient, performance, and safety’. Go criticize on f1, street race and motorbikes for safety issues. Or maybe get a life.

  71. JBarron 8 October 2010 at 12:59 am #

    All of you trendy, candy-ass, non-suspension-geometry-understanding, non-valid-point-addressing, sissy douchewagon hipsters, should just look around you, and realize that your style is derivative. You want a stiffer sidewall? Don’t pretend you even care about, let alone comprehend anything about vehicle dynamics. You want attention. If you want a stiffer sidewall, buy a tire that has a stiffer sidewall.
    Did you come up with this style? Why does everyone just copy each other, over and over, and over again? Because you have a proven formula for suck? By the way, I have studied this nonsense, and some of these hellaflush cars are beautiful. I mean truly. However %99 of the time, nothing truly original is being brought to the table stylistically. It’s like mandatory fashion equipment for your douchebag starter kit. Function goes out the window, and that is the antithesis of what is interesting about cars, in any state other than parked. At least when you park, you park HARD.

    • Shann 18 August 2011 at 9:05 am #

      Surely you’re describing yourself as a hipster, you don’t wanna do what anyone else is doing? People who do anything with their cars cosmetic or performance-wise, will at some point in time do something that someone else somewhere in the world has done, and hence it’s a proven formula. Do you think all the men in the world are trendy candy-ass sissy douchewagon hipsters because %99 of the time we wear pants and shirts? Think maybe we should do something more original?

  72. JBarron 8 October 2010 at 1:15 am #

    Thank you hellaflush community! I feel so much better now that I have abused you a little. Seriously. I don’t know where that came from. I hope that in the future, you will not elevate my wrath to incalculable levels, and that we can have a far more diplomatic discourse.
    Please, the next person to defend this movement, address the suspension dynamics for a moment.
    This is what you call a first world problem. Be glad you don’t live in Rwanda, or Mattapan, and listen to your god damn parents, when they tell you to wise up, and pull your damn pants up. …And put your hat straight while you’re at it.

  73. JBarron 8 October 2010 at 1:29 am #

    These constant mentions of all the other dangers on the road, are laughable deflections, evasions, and rationalizations, all of them. Is it physically painful to have such tortured logic reside in your brain?

  74. Road Racer 8 October 2010 at 6:10 am #

    It’s people wanting a racer look without the racer work. Lowering a car properly takes a lot of effort to get the suspension geometry working right.
    You lower a car and stiffen it up it might do a little better on a smooth flat race course just by lowering the center of gravity. But on the street? Why? Roads are bumpy, you need some suspension travel.

    He’s right, for the most part it’s all about the look, like a fart can muffler, does nothing for performance, sounds like crap. When you hear a tuned engine you know it, fart can or not.

    Pro Touring is hot right now, running 18-20” rims with wide tires tucked under 69 Camaro Fenders. I hate the look and it does nothing for performance. Once you get over 17” you’ve maxed out available brake diameters and the rims start adding weight even though the tires are rubber band thin. Plus their expensive and ride rough. Tires add shock absorbsion.
    What’s worse is someone putting rims like that on and running stock small diameter brakes, looks stupid, the reason for bigger rims to begin with was to allow for bigger brakes. Form follows function.

    Hella whatever has no form or function, just appearence and you end up with a car that’s tough to drive.

  75. ifknlovemystretchtires 8 October 2010 at 9:40 am #

    i dont understand why everyone has to hate the forward movement of the automotive culture. stance has been around forever, flush stance is purely the new form to give your car a different silhouette for looking good. Keeping up with a trend doesnt have to mean you jump on the banwagon, if thats the case then you are ALL hipster hipocrites, im only guessing ALL of you have a facebook or myspace(sounds like a hipster to me). if you dont like it then come up with your own movement and see how easily it catches on, i bet youll get made fun of til you cry.

    race cars are a look as well, no one is going to build a race car with the wheels sticking 10 inches out of the fenders. and i bet you took one look at chris rados world racing scion and said wow that dumb… well that thing is setting records. would you build a race car like that?

    Racing is a form of car culture and so is art. if you ask me daily driven is a matter of opinion. sure my cars ride is as comfortable as falling down a flight of stairs but in my opinion its daily worthy. I can drive my stretch federals everyday but not my r6s. stretch tires can be daily driven, race slicks cant (i dare you to show slicks to a cop)

  76. JBarron 8 October 2010 at 1:21 pm #

    No, I’m not on Myspace or Facebook lol. Are “we” all hipster hypocrites? Perhaps.That Scion race car: A, does not qualify as hellaflush, and B, was designed with trial and error testing, datalogging, etc. You may identify race cars as having a look, but they are purely functional in any way that counts mechanically. Not to mention, race cars belong a track.
    Just so you know, I actually like the look of some hellaflush cars, bosozoku cars etc. I just think that you don’t sacrifice decent handling, and the confidence that your vehicle will respond properly when you tell it what to do, in exchange for a fashion statement.
    If you are setting up a car to handle properly, first, and using whatever remaining room for creativity, secondly, then I applaud you for your creativity, and my scorn is not aimed at you.

  77. bro... 11 October 2010 at 11:15 pm #

    Hahaha. This was nice… but I got one word for you…

    hellahatin

    Don’t act like you don’t like something that someone else thinks is stupid hater…

  78. TDB 15 October 2010 at 1:23 pm #

    I’ve still yet to see anyone defend this fashion trend effectively. There has been some admission that it’s just a popular trendy thing on one hand, but no admission about the hampered performance that comes with it. It’s a double-edged sword guys. You simply can NOT have it both ways.

    Of course there’s also a lot of whining about “hating”, but no facts to actually defend it. To disagree with something **and to back up your disagreement with supporting logic or evidence** is NOT “hating”. Hating would be the opposite — disagreeing with something BUT having nothing to back up your opinion.

    The mention or pro-touring and race cars may be getting off course a bit. I would not consider most PT cars to be “hellaflush”. They don’t stretch tires like crazy because there is usually no need. Those types of cars have much bigger wheel/fender-wells than FWD cars and most newer models. Sure, within PT circles you have some people more into go and some more into show…. On the whole I’d still consider PT to be much more performance oriented than anything going on with the hellaflush movement. There’s simply nothing ‘performance’ about slamming and stretching and notching frame.

    The funniest thing of all is these stanced cars with tons of motor work. What a waste!

    You can run a big arse uber-turbo running 30+psi and it will mean absolutely nothing without a proper contact patch to lay it down. FWD cars are crippled enough in this respect. Do we really need to hurt it more with skinnier tires??? Go ahead and try to prove me wrong with your 205 series tires stretched on a 9” wheel. I’ll bet you get beat by a similar car with far less power running 255s that actually fit on a smaller 8” wheel.

  79. TDB 15 October 2010 at 1:25 pm #

    put that in your pipe and smoke it bro….

  80. DBS 16 October 2010 at 1:54 pm #

    I understand the CONCEPT of this article. I think the problem doesn’t lay with the style itself, but more to the modifiers. Yes it looks awesome, yes I’d do it. But the problem is when Billy Bob here cuts his factory springs starts doing B.S. “modifications” to make his stuff Hellaflush. I can appreciate a nice car, but when people start making due with what they have. . . thats a different story. When you put coilovers on, you still have a decent suspension set up, increased spring rates, blah blah. But when you take factory’s and cut them/heat them, you just ruin everything.

    People want that show/race look but the problem is, they dont have a car to do it with. So they end up doing it to their own DD car. Same thing with people that go fast, alot of them do it to their DD’s and have issues because speed isn’t necessarily reliable when you push the engine to its limits. But that can also be blamed on the modifier, not the idea/movement. You build a motor, you build it like it should be built with reliable, quality parts. Get it properly tuned its fine. When people boost their cars way past the limit, do people call them stupid for blowing their engines, sometimes, yes. But other times its okay, because its a “bad ass” car.

    JESSE: I understand the article, I really do. Given its the new movement, you’ll see alot of cars on the road with this setup. Few years ago it was the F&F movement, alot of dangerous DRIVING as well as some pretty questionable cars. Next year it will be something different. Its just the whole car scene is being catered more towards marketing and following trends.

  81. Jesse 16 October 2010 at 2:50 pm #

    DBS: Totally agree. Hellaflush cars can look amazing, but the movement has been headed in the wrong direction for awhile. The F&F movement may be the worst thing to happen in automotive culture, since it didn’t even have a PURPOSE. It was just a society of “more”. More everything.

    What I really want to see is people thinking for themselves, establishing solid goals, and following through with them.

  82. Jimmy Oldskool 16 October 2010 at 4:37 pm #

    Have you guys ever heard of the phrase:

    “Each to their own”

    Differing opinions make the world an interesting place. I personally like and follow the ‘Hellaflush’ theme of styling because it’s pleasing to MY eye. Granted some of the cars that are so called ‘Hellaflush’ look a bunch of arse, but you’ll find that in any car culture. I am however, under no illusion that any car built to be ‘flush’ is going to out handle a 997 GT3 nor drive as well as an unmodified car of the same type, of course there are compromises from owning and living with this type of modified car, but there are with any modified car.
    I think what I’m trying to say is that I think it’s a little small minded to label the movement idiotic. It’s a culture, and it will be vehemently defended by it’s followers, so unless the point of your article was to rub said people up the wrong way, I find the article a little pointless.

    Cheers

    Jimmy

    • Jesse 16 October 2010 at 5:05 pm #

      I’m saying that Hellaflush sucks because so many people do such a terrible job with it. A lot of people are quick to point out examples that aren’t terrible, but unfortunately with something like this, you’re either doing everything right or you’re destroying a car and are a danger to everyone around you. Too many people do it wrong, due to a low budget or a lack of understanding. That’s why I feel justified in saying that it’s a bad idea.

  83. Jimmy Oldskool 16 October 2010 at 5:30 pm #

    Of course, it’s your prerogative to voice your opinion on any given subject, I just think that if your opinion is that SOME people do it wrong, and I quote:

    “Too many people do it wrong, due to a low budget or a lack of understanding.”

    It’s a little narrow minded to label the whole culture, and therefore the people that follow it, idiotic….Don’t you?

  84. Jesse 16 October 2010 at 6:09 pm #

    Try not to put words in my mouth, I didn’t say everyone who has anything to do with the movement is an idiot. The people who truly care do it right and produce amazing results, but that doesn’t make up for all the people who did it wrong.

  85. DBS 17 October 2010 at 1:18 am #

    so Jimmy Oldskool. If I were to say that American’s are fat. . . would you agree? I mean, I can walk through any city in America and pretty much find that that is most common body type. Now I know that not all American are fat, just the ones that I see. So still, his argument makes sense: You see hella more crappy cars than properly built ones.

    You know, as well as I do, that you have seen WAY more cars that look horrible and are built really awfully but you accept that as a fact. There are always more people that do it “wrong” than “right.” I’m sure you’ve seen versions of your car that make you cringe. . . they did this, or they did that, or didn’t do this. Its a matter of taste and the fact that, again, when F&F came, out neons and crazy decals were the norm. There were cars that did it well, and alot more cars that were AWFUL.

  86. Flipped BMW 18 October 2010 at 8:09 am #

    You are one hell of a ignorant fucking moron.
    Like one of the pervious comments said, lifted cars just straight up suck too then.
    It’s cool though, the “hellaflush” group can own your ass in a circuit while you can barely take a turn going 20.
    Your waste of flesh in the human society is more worthless then the carbion monoxide your piece of shit puts out.
    Don’t be such a arrogant asshole over one of today’s most popular trends.

  87. Urstin 19 October 2010 at 1:37 am #

    If some of you who disagree with this article are using “it’s personal preference” as an argument, then why are you bitching about this article?

    I agree with function over fashion. Why was the automobile invented in the first place? So people could look cool? Or so people could travel further?

    A lot of people forget the use of many objects, the car is one huge example of this. Gear heads will argue that the Flush movement is not functional, and though your car can still “drive” it is barely functional. I have worked on many aspects of the auto, and can appreciate new ideas to improve on frustrating OEM or Manufacturer designs.

    But how are insanely stretched tires and aggressive stance any more useful than neon lights and wings on slow daily drivers?

    Yes, just like what kind of shoes you wear put on in the morning come down to personal preference, however, when it comes to a marathon, some of ya’ll are wearing clown shoes.

    This website rocks, and I agree fully with this article. I also respect that the author isn’t just ranting on Fat Lace, and rather the fad/style.

  88. E30 Owner 19 October 2010 at 8:45 am #

    To sum this up:

    Stretching tires is almost always a bad idea. Several reasons include: more likely to break bead seal (blowout, possibly loss of control), unsafe design (any small manufacturer defect will be magnified by breaking specifications), and tire damage (potholes or other debris easily bubbles over stressed sidewalls). Before any of you start clamoring, I’m an experienced auto mechanic, and all of these are problems I’ve had to repair vehicles repair vehicles for. The common exception is for tire specific racing, such as a spec series. By running a 205 tire on a rim 225mm wide you can stiffen the sidewall slightly, giving you marginally better response.

    Massive negative camber: 2 to 4 degrees of negative is good on a track car; it lessens tire wear, evens tire temperatures, and makes the most of your contact patch in cornering. On a street or daily driven car it is a terrible idea. You will wear your tires incredibly fast, leaving your inner section at wear bars and outer section is pristine new tread. If you drive your vehicle hard on the street or want a autocross/track friendly alignment go for 1 to 1.5 degrees of static negative camber.

    Tire tucking. Unless you don’t plan on every driving on a normal road, you need 2 or more inches of suspension travel. If you don’t and happen to find yourself on a pothole filled road, you will self clearance your fender arches. Again if you want to have a stanced out show car, I’m all for it. I love the look, just hate the hacks who daily the style.

    Mis-matched camber. This is a horrific idea. To tune for the track you tend to run a little more camber on the front tires than the rear assuming a front or mid engined car. This is due to the suspension dive, body roll, and cornering forces at corner entry (ie where your tires collectively do the most work). If you look at real race cars you will notice this on everything but the highest tier non-production vehicles (static camber is almost always even front to rear due to low amounts of body roll and very stiff spring rates). In order to create the perfect ‘stanced’ look most chassis require massive amounts ( >5 degrees) of negative camber. This not only plays hell with tire wear, but it will change the chassis balance from the stock understeer, to dangerous snap oversteer. This is due to high temperature of the inner rear tire section causing the tire to become ‘greasy’. Since you have so much camber in static, under compression your camber curve adds even more dynamic camber, and your outside section of tire never makes full contact of the road. This is very dangerous, as any experienced driver can deal with understeer, but when you spin you have very little control. Thus you can safely drive about the same speed as grandma, not something I ever see hellaflush cars doing.

    If you want to comment on this post please do your research before hand, or even better play around on a simulator with a hellaflush setup vehicle. Drop ride heights to minimum, retain stock spring rates, and increase rear camber to over negative 4 degrees. The result isn’t pretty.

    -E30 Owner

  89. Nick 19 October 2010 at 9:10 am #

    [quote]Jesse says:
    September 29, 2010 at 9:00 am
    This is a perfect example of what I’m talking about when I say hellaflush is stupid for any streetable car:
    http://jalopnik.com/5651022//quote

    Rusty is on bags and is normally driven raised up, there are pictures of such. Cars on bags are only slammed like that when parked for pictures. The video of him droped down and tossing sparks is just for show and not an every day occurance, and sorry to burst your bubble but low riders have been doing that kind of thing waaaaay before the hellaflush guys.

    You need to grow up. Just because you dont like something doesnt mean you have to hate on it. Let enthusiasts be. Ive never read a more senseless and negative article in my life.

    And on your point of them endangering people.. Id rather have a “hellaflush” guy rolling at the speed limit or slower being cautious of the road and its condition than some performance minded idiot with more power than he can handle done to his car out to prove he’s the fastest thing on the street. Ive yet to hear of any deaths due to someone ridding hellaflush but hear them all the time due to performance enthusiasts racing out on the streets.

    • Jesse 19 October 2010 at 9:59 am #

      I saw that he was on bags, and Mike really is a masterful homebrew engineer to pull off building a car like that. However, the fact that he chose to drive it on a public road in traffic riding with the car’s belly on the ground is what I’m disagreeing with. Unless I’m mistaken, your argument is that bad drivers are dangerous and good drivers are not dangerous. Mike taking his car on the road completely slammed and tearing chunks out of the road is his choice, and it’s a dangerous choice.

  90. Chuck T 20 October 2010 at 5:15 am #

    I like a ”flush” look…”Hellaflush” looks ”Hellaretarded”.

  91. J-Dilla 21 October 2010 at 1:42 am #

    There’s a reason why they feature cars that fit the bill and dont feature every car on the planet who say theyre hellaflush. If you were around when they first started the site in 2004, they haven’t exaggerated the style. The style just hit the masses when all the “stance” whatever sites popped up.

    In bike world, its like Cafe Racer or Chopper. 2 Styles, 2 different ways to express your style. Alot of people that are into the scene/style have other cars dedicated to racing, drifting, or cruising and each setup is different. The fatlace crew races alot throughout the year so they definitely understand how things work. Remember, hellaflush is just a style of tuning. It’s not something to get so worked up on.

    An interesting note.. This is probably thee most commented post on this entire blog and will continue to be unless the owner decides to take this post off. It’s interesting because this topic, on any site or forum, gets heated by the people that disagree and agree on the style. It’s creating hits and controversy for the blog byt in the end, It’s boils down to either you like it or dont. In our case, we have cars setup for track, drift or cruising.

    • Jesse 21 October 2010 at 1:05 pm #

      I have a lot of respect for Fatlace, and have spoken with a few staff members on numerous occasions. I never expected this particular post to explode so violently, but since it has I’ve really enjoyed the good conversations that have stemmed over this controversy. Some people get carried away, and I’ve had to remove a fair number of comments that were extremely closed-minded or offensive (on both sides of the conversation).

      This is definitely the most commented-on post, there’s no question about that whatsoever. It’s inspired me to step the site up a few notches, and I’ve been working hard on some major changes that I hope to release by the end of the month (I’m excited!).

  92. Justin 22 October 2010 at 11:36 am #

    “Try to tuck your entire wheel and tire into the wheelwells. Ideally, it should all be shoved up where nobody can see it.”

    “The closer the wheels are to being flush with the bodywork, the more “hellaflush” that car is.”

    LoL. Anyone see a contradiction here?

    -To address OP’s point more directly, I think there’s a huge misunderstanding happening here. Hellaflush is essentially a balance. It’s not “obscene amounts of camber,” “tucking your entire wheel and tire,” or any of the other slurs mentioned. It’s about balancing all things stance: camber, tire fitment, wheel fitment, and fender work; all while being as low as possible. If you have to “tuck your entire wheel and tire into the wheelwells” to be low, you’re not hellaflush. If you have to run -10deg camber to fit your wheels, you’re not hellaflush. The movement centers around “the art” of wheel fitment. Try to think about it like that: an art. Guys who bolt on whichever off-the-shelf wheels they can afford and who go “as low as my coils let me” aren’t putting the effort in. Hellaflush means you put the time and effort into choosing a wheel and dialing in your tire fitment, camber, and fender work to make it look just right. There’s no denying it looks pretty nice when done right. No one’s making any further claims beyond that. The culture relies of film and photography as its main vessels; it looks good: enjoy.

  93. ifknlovemystretchtires 23 October 2010 at 11:56 am #

    J dilla makes a great point, read it

    Besides not all modified cars have to be fast, or have a ton of money spent on them to “do it the right way”.

    Why shouldnt car lovers be entitled to “making due with what they have”… im quoting dbs

    If thats the case than anything below F1 is complete rubbish…

  94. Nick 24 October 2010 at 4:19 am #

    Dragging frame M Burroughs did with rusty in that vid doesnt “tear chunks” out of the road. I dont know where you live but if you lived up north and saw the kind of destruction snow plows do to streets and the sparks they toss you’d realize your statement is a bit flawed. And slamming the car down like that tossing sparks is NOT A HELLAFLUSH only thing, so why you bring it up in your defense of your opinion of why hellaflush is helladumb I have no idea.. its a low rider thing and has been for ages. My buddy has a bagged s10 thats no where near hella flush and has been doing it for years with trailer balls mounted under the truck so they make contact with the road NOT THE FRAME and create sparks. Thats usually how its done.

    Seriously, stop the hate

  95. Imola black s4 24 October 2010 at 9:49 am #

    This is why people like you need a life.. God put you here to talk about a car culture then he really didn’t expect much from you… You really need to find better things to do with your time really sad…and what exactly to you drive a family van.. Please sounds like your jealous I feel sorry for people like you….hope you wake up and smell the coffee..

  96. francisco torres 25 October 2010 at 10:48 am #

    listen guy/girl im at school and its hella boring here, there used it as an adjective u need to get a life alright people like you piss me of because yall actualy think people give two shits about your thoughts now if it wasnt for school i probably wouldnt even be reading this. why dont you get a life person guy/girl…..i will piss u off by saying its not your descision of how people want and or dont want to mod their own fucking cars..im sorry for the excess repetition but get a life..

  97. Mike Larry 27 October 2010 at 2:29 pm #

    Get a life… I guess Hella Fulsh is another Genre of automotive styling that you can use the word rice in a negative way. I bet you drive beat up whooptee and say rice a lot. Do you think you are an automotive guru or something? One tip for you, layoff the hateraid.

  98. Andrew Puleo 29 October 2010 at 12:53 pm #

    Full agreement

    Its not “playa hatin’” if your just pointing out how stupid something/one is

  99. Psykostevo 31 October 2010 at 5:41 pm #

    I can see the impracticality (sp?) of the Hellaflush movement, but I still get jealous when I see a car like mine that is so nicely done in that manner that I wish I owned it.

  100. trav 4 November 2010 at 3:34 pm #

    the shit’s ugly and doesn’t drive worth a crap. that’s an oppinion AND a fact. this “hellaflush” junk was created by some dumb ass broke kids that just thought lower=cooler.. thus, giving us the cambered-in part. then they decided.. imma buy the cheapest tires they got for my 15″ rims; which, of corse, were only about 5 inches wide.. here, giving you the bead that looks like you turned a rain gutter inside out.. the cars look like real life photoshopping gone wrong.

    you can argue all you want, but you’re WRONG… fkn kids…

  101. pokey_reese 5 November 2010 at 11:59 am #

    LoL^ That has to be a joke

  102. koz 9 November 2010 at 11:54 am #

    hella flush is tha shit ! stay spanked all day in the bean !

  103. koz 9 November 2010 at 12:11 pm #

    and i fully agree with “francisco torres” !

  104. Joe 12 November 2010 at 12:31 am #

    One: Stop being a hater.

    Two: There are much worst things than hellaflush movement that are way more idiotic….such as the hyphy movement. That is more of an endangerment if anything. Donk!

    Three: Some choose to drive on the freeway and some don’t, to each his own.

    Four: You say endangerment; driving wrecklessly isn’t something most of these people do, there slow and they know it so let them enjoy there style which cost them way less. If anything I know most of them drive more carefully so they don’t scratch rims or dig themselves into the ground or break something.

    Lastly: For the record I think its dumb also, but then again I think alot of things are stupid yet you don’t see me posting it about it.

  105. laura 15 November 2010 at 3:36 pm #

    agreed. ill shoot myself before i lower my fg2. its entirely impracticle.

  106. Derek 18 November 2010 at 11:00 pm #

    I Agree with the argument that is stupid to be Hella Flush…but its awesome if its done right…u guys heard of Air BAGS>?

  107. kyle 19 November 2010 at 6:47 pm #

    hella is short for hellacious .. which means to put like extra emphasis on stuff btw, wasnt made up by cool kids with low cars yoo.. but i see where your coming from i’m all function over form but it is nice to look at a well put together car…idk but now that we are on the topic viva la static!

  108. Jonathan 29 November 2010 at 6:41 pm #

    All this talk about the stanced movement and and all he has to show for is a piece of shit ford falcon that’s probably not even done. Haha fitment has been around longer then you’ve been living, and he acting like it’s some new thing. I’ve seen muscle cars at sema with flush fitments, half of chip foose’s projects have really good fitments also and are really low even by todays standards idiot.

  109. Derrick 10 December 2010 at 5:43 pm #

    to trav:

    you are wrong in every aspect of this comment. Actually tard, this “movement” has been around since the late 80′s and early 90′s in Japan. They have been stretching tires and using low/negative offset wheels for a long time now! Nothing new. Also, if take another journey overseas to our our european friends and their car culteure, well what do you know? Stretched tires and low offsets. You try taking your head outta your behind and just sit back and enjoy the eye candy. Im sure some these cars are built for show and not to be driven like a bat out of hell on the everyday roads. And since you seem to be a performance buff, what about drifting? Im pretty sure I see lots of negative camber and stretched tires, if im not mistaken that does serve a purpose in drifting. I mean 300 hp cars sliding sideways at 60 mph, thats bananas! Your are just clearly to closed minded to except the fact this new culture is actully very intriguing! GET OVER IT!

  110. joel 11 December 2010 at 3:13 am #

    If there were no hellaflush movement, youd be complaining about something else, and so on, if cars were all the same, that would be boring as F#$%. Learn some tolerance, sure the scene isnt for you, no need for you to go and tell everyone its stupid, thats just your opinion, and yes youre entitled to it, but do you really need to blog it?

  111. CC 18 December 2010 at 1:49 am #

    LOL, this is so stupid, I dont care what any of you dumbshits says, hellaflush with stretched tires, poke and way too much camber is strictly for looks. In no way shape or form will it increase race day performance (except for drifting where it doesnt improve nor degrade performance- quality of tires and suspension does). The bottom line is: If you look fast and arent, then youre just frontin and if youre frontin then youre just rice and need to STFU. Seriously, would you stance fans wear wooden shoes to play basketball or to walk around if everyone else was doing it and it looked cool? No??? well then why do it to your poor car? If you like your cars slow and trendy then by all means “flush” that shit down. But if you are more into performance……well then you probably already know this fad is a joke. Am I a hater?? Yes, I hate slow cars that look fast and I hate fast cars that are made slower through poor mods.

  112. antonio 18 December 2010 at 3:54 pm #

    You make a great point i agree with you…. but you have to admite!? that the stance of the car looks really sick…. but its a b@#$H to drive because you have to baby it and theres those day when your in a hurry or your driving in the rain and your wishing your car was at normal hight lol so i recomend great coilovers or bags…

  113. Joel 18 December 2010 at 4:32 pm #

    lol, ^^ that’s my name too lololol

    Hellaflush = Bunch of hard parkers.

  114. SDflushed. 20 December 2010 at 3:49 pm #

    Well, some people make it a hobby, I am a big hellaflush enthusiast and we dont really car about who has the bigger motor but who’s car looks the illest on the street just cruising. i can bash on those annoying harleys and loud ass bikes, but everyone has their own style. Hellaflush is a hobby i enjoy. and rice is very offensive as i am asian american. When i think of rice i think of bullshit wannabee racers that turn a car into a piece of crap with fake parts, for example people that put a huge ass wing when it doesnt even give them downforce and it just adds wieght.OR having different colors of paint on the car. i can rant about that all day but thats for another forum. Just respect people’s interest not everyone agrees on everything

  115. rogue 24 December 2010 at 5:53 pm #

    rice is anything done to a car that has no positive effect on performance. bumper stickers are rice. window stickers are rice. vanity shift knobs are rice. fuzzy dice are rice. new speaker systems… well those serve a purpose, but they still could be called rice. hellaflush cars do look ill, but a lot of the idiots idolizing it and/or doing it don’t realize that it really fucks your performance.

  116. hellaflush.m3 17 January 2011 at 1:36 pm #

    lowered cars have been around forever. stretched tires on cars were ment for looks. if people (like myself and many others) want to drive around with dumped cars and watch out for all the bumps in the road then let US do it. YOU dont have to. to each his own. I think you should just stop hatting, go back to boston and stay there. funny thing is that i bet if you were to go back you would see some clean hellaflush cars there too. oh and some poor kids who cant afford tires arnt the only ones doing it. check out the lexus, benz, etc. that are all hellaflush. thats bank that people are putting into their cars to enjoy a movement that they WANT to be a part of.
    i really dont like to hate on people but if you really have nothing better to do then go home get online and start talking shit about a car you seen driving down the street, then i feel like i should have something to say about it. for all i know maybe it was me you saw driving my M3 down the street.

  117. Ben240sx 18 January 2011 at 10:27 am #

    I think that people should do whatever they want with there cars. i think who ever posted this is just mad they cant fix there cars like people in HELLAFLUSH. i think hellaflush is the best thing that has ever happened.

  118. Jonny 19 January 2011 at 2:54 pm #

    I couldn’t be bothered to read the hole (load of crap) thing but who ever wrote all that horse shit should just keep it to them self. People can mod there cars just how they want. There are lots of different looks that people go for, u yapping on about one of the coolest ones isn’t going to change a thing about it, so why bother!?

  119. Denis 21 January 2011 at 9:15 pm #

    Well I have to admit that the whole hellaflush scene is impractical, just like most other show cars out there. The guy with a 10K paint job won’t be driving from show to show, so to each is own.

    I’m pretty open to the different cultures out there to but some of the stuff out there is just down right RICE. I say keep it clean and just what you got!

  120. Decatur404 6 February 2011 at 12:08 pm #

    POOR JEESE!

    I like the hellaflush movement! I plan on getting my RX8 hellaflushed, but I don’t know of any shops in San Diego that knows how to. I don’t want to go to any “shade tree” just to get that look. So, I get what you’re point is Jeese, but you choose the wrong words.

    When done right, one could achieve the look and still have a DD car.

    • Jesse 7 February 2011 at 12:06 am #

      Well put. I was pointing out that the extreme cases (which are all too common) really ruin the whole movement. Some hellaflushed cars do look great, but the median of the movement is pretty pathetic and dangerous.

  121. Bwarlick 22 February 2011 at 1:40 am #

    So for the people that do it for show that’s cool I guess but have fun paying for tires that are A. To small for the rims you retards have and B. Gonna wear out way too fast because of your “sweet offset”. As a mechanic and as just a guy with a STi that goes to the track, if your going “hellaflush” have fun but don’t try to say it’s functional and coilovers don’t always mean better it’s gotta be tuned. O and one last thing slamming a car does not make it more aerodynamic that’s what diffusers are for and functional wings so yeah don’t cut springs and a good alignment is just that GOOD!!!!!!!

  122. Grinder 23 February 2011 at 12:52 am #

    I think there is SOME merit to the hellaflush movement. Unfortunately the majority of the hellaflush that ends up on the street weather its from pretenders and wannabes ends up being pure hack. I like a car that has a nice stance but at the same time incorperates performance. Why do you think we like aggressive looking cars? Because the high performance creates that look. Lower center of gravity, better areodynamics, etc. Bring the wheels closer, fill in the gap but keep performance in mind as well. Lets face it crazy camber came from being a cheap ass and lowering a car that didn’t have the ability to adjust camber and not dealing with the camber issue. You should have planed out your build instead of spending $10k on chrome plated 24″ wheels weighing in at 942lbs each. Sorry but the case for drift cars with a slack ass set up being the inspiration for hella flush is just wrong. A properly set up car will have performance first and foremost and be more along the lines of a proper race car than taking the die grinder and whacking off four inches from your coils.

    I don’t understand the kid with the new beamer that strips the paint off the hood and rusts it so it looks like an old wreak but the rest of the car is brand new. How is that not being a poser?

    So yea hellaflush has shown us that stance is important and for that I give them kudos. We can keep performance and styling at the same time. A car is about personal preference too and if you want a trailer queen then go for it. I can appreciate the personal mods done to a Harley – looks good but I can tell you I’d never own one of those pieces of crap that spend more time in the back of the pickup…. buy hey they look nice…

    Hellaflush has some merit but there are too many cars made unsafe from hellaflush and that’s why a lot of performance guys have issue with it….

  123. kyle 1 March 2011 at 7:55 pm #

    i think you made it sound stupid its not like ervery one goes all out on it they dont all “Try to tuck your entire wheel and tire into the wheelwells. Ideally, it should all be shoved up where nobody can see it.” really all you do is give it a little camber and wide wheels deep dish rims and your set :) no need to be MAD

  124. fuk u 11 March 2011 at 12:27 pm #

    shutup, if u dont like it, just ignore it, dont make a whole website supporting why u hate it, cuz its not a good reason, people drift in hellaflush cars, race, track, so i dont know how u say they dont work and theyre a wast of car??? i bet u dont have a car, lol, just kill urself,

  125. Austin 29 March 2011 at 12:01 pm #

    It’s just A preference, some people like it some people don’t, my car is laid the fuck out but I drive it everyday, it’s a lifestyle, you have to choose, form.function.or a little bit of both and at least us form guys can agree with the function guys that we all hate ricers, they are the scum of the earth…

    Nice article and like you said I respect daily driven hellaflushers like my self but trailer queens need to die, cars are for driving

  126. Robbie 30 March 2011 at 9:33 am #

    i think hella-flush is probably the most sick thing I’ve ever seen, my car is a honda civic ef hatch Si and its extremely close to being hella-flush and I LOVE IT. I dont mind crawling across speed-bumps or creeping up graded driveways because it was my personal decision to put coil-overs on it and slam the balls out of it. and I love the way it handles too. so I think hella-flush is a personal decision and if people like it piss off and let them do it its their car so leave them alone.

  127. Siraj 5 April 2011 at 11:15 am #

    I know this is old but i cant help but comment when i see a ignorant close minded person writing article that are bias to his/her preference. I do understand your concept that cars were created for transportation and all auto sports should follow along that guideline and improve on performance however what you seem to lost sight of is that cars became a platforms for people to express themselves as corny as that may sound it is true. The very same view you are taking on hellaflush movement is the exact same attitude that millions of other people had on the early tuner world. I dont know about you but i remember when the law and stubborn people like you were gathering in attempt to block this new culture of people taking average cars or moderate sports cars and pushing them past factory limits.It was considered dumb and degrading the quality of the automobile to upgrade the cars performance unless it was a high end super car. I get it your all about efficiency and bare bones and longevity thats all great but what you seem to not quite get it to get automobiles to be more simple and reliable and efficient it takes movements like car tuning and hella flush which put more demand on companies to create more reliable and efficient parts.

    It really does not help to be a car enthusiast or a simple car man and to bash other areas of the car world. I think maybe you should devote your time to helping the car world rather than being a stubborn hippie who believes that simple is better in life. if that is the case my friend start walking everywhere you go.

    • Jesse 7 April 2011 at 6:18 pm #

      This article doesn’t bash the Hellaflush enthusiasts who do it right. If you’re going to make your car look sweet while keeping it safe for the road, I’m all for it. Express yourself. I merely ask that people think about what they’re doing beforehand. As long as a car can be driven on a “normal” road and it doesn’t endanger anyone else, I really have no complaints. I’ll still think it’s silly to put so much work into something that doesn’t technically improve their lives, but I’m not going to hold that against them. At the end of the day, the point of this article is to make people step back and think about whether a modification is worth doing or not before blindly changing their vehicles. A few years ago, I would have directed this at the “rice” community because there were a lot of enthusiastic hacks who wanted to do as much as possible to their vehicles. Now, the enthusiastic hacks seem to be moving toward the hellaflush movement. Not everyone involved in the hellaflush movement is a hack, but those who are tend to be (some of the) most dangerous drivers on the road (other than soccer moms and drunk drivers, who will NEVER be affected by anything someone writes).

  128. E'sFactory 9 April 2011 at 4:30 pm #

    Wow, this is getting rediculous.

    Cars are meant to be driven in any way shape or form.

    Some Hellaflush cars go beyond and I dont like it at all.
    My AE86 has agressive wheels (15X8.8 -32 offset) and shes driven daily and low as all hell.
    Chip Foose, Boyd Coddingtion (RIP) designed cars that were smalled to the ground and mostly Foose designed and built flush cars.
    The mini truck guys have been doing severe drops on their truck for years as well.
    This is what car culture is about douche bags, do what you want to your car and mind your own business.
    EVERYONE has a different style, tatse.
    if its all about safetuy and efficiancy, then why buy an sti and modify it.
    Leave it stock?
    No, you do what you want to it.
    AMS in Chicago has the GTR producing 1000+whp, WHY? Because they CAN.
    RE Amemiya has a slammed FD for Tsukuba time attack slammed and flushed wheels for performance, some guys replicate this style on the street, thats their business!

    All these critics need to GET A LIFE

  129. E'sFactory 9 April 2011 at 4:35 pm #

    Agreed with the safety aspect, we cant just do shit that will potentially kill someone.
    But wouldnt that fall under the driver’s responsibility?
    There are plenty of high HP cars (Vettes, EVos, Supras) on the streets all over the world, and you can kill someone if you drive like a miniac, hell, even driving a stock car.
    There is no stretch tire death rate in America, if properly installed, (im a tire tech) and PSI is routinely checked, there should be no reason for anything to happen.
    Can it happen, yes
    Can a 235/70/16 just blow out of defect? yes.
    having your car too low to the ground?
    Driver will suffer when he smashes his oil pan or some vital piece.
    Nobody will die.
    Whats the issue?

  130. E'sFactory 9 April 2011 at 4:45 pm #

    THIS IS THE PROBLEM:

    We as people, in these current times, have to judge EVERYTHING that everyone does.
    Why they do it, whats wrong, whats right, etc.
    And because technology now is so accesible, instead of it being a way for us to unite, it serves as a way to seperate ourselves as car enthusiasts.
    Its digusting to me.

    You are not going to change anyones mind.

    Worry about rapist and child molesters out there.
    Fuck does anyone care what they do with their car?
    The accidents ive seen are STOCK cars, stupidass drivers.
    Listen lets not worry about what people are driving,
    we should worry about people that SHOULDNT be driving!!!
    LOL

  131. BigTimeFlush 13 April 2011 at 1:07 am #

    Hellaflush is art for somebody us. It’s a hobby.

  132. Adam 13 April 2011 at 11:33 pm #

    There is nothing wrong with making your car look good, but any modification that trades performance for cosmetics is fucking retarded. You think engineers design every aspect of sports cars so they can just crawl around? Sports cars were designed to be driven, and in most cases (in the import scene), aftermarket suspension actually impairs handling. Lower ride height gives you a lower center of gravity of course, but it disrupts the suspension geometry of the car, effectively destroying the balance of the car that engineers worked so hard to achieve. Many components will not act as they should, and reliability of certain parts can be compromised. Suspension mods should only be handled by professionals, including part choice, installation, and tuning. So Just remember next time you hop in your scraping Teg of S2K, not only does every real driver hate you, but HONDA HATES YOU TOO! (the same goes for all manufacturers)

  133. 8oh8 17 April 2011 at 6:18 pm #

    Man… Your HELLA hating haha

  134. Jamezzy 20 April 2011 at 12:16 pm #

    Hella flush does look pretty cool, on the right car. Would I do it? Absolutely not. Function first then cosmetics, functional cosmetics is my game. I’ve seen it done on some Civics, it looks alright. But sometimes the car looks like it needs to urinate or something. I do hear alot of cases where people go the dirty and dangerous way and cut their springs, endangering EVERYONE on the road. If you do that, you lose alot of control with your car. I’m more of a performance guy, ofcourse I will agree looks is very important. But since I’m a performance guy, I just can’t see how you can improve your handling with that camber setup. Isn’t it a negative in performance? To me there’s alot more cons to it than pros.

  135. Negrotorious 23 April 2011 at 11:54 pm #

    The new way to call it is “HerraFrush”. Show, go or both. Just do whatever you do right and not half assed.

  136. hellaflushG37S 10 May 2011 at 2:40 pm #

    my G37 is hellaflush drive everywhere with it no problem…. but what else can i say haters gonna hate.

  137. Dan 15 May 2011 at 2:04 pm #

    Thank you for stating your opinion, because I completely agree with you on this one. Hella flush… Fail

  138. RichBiatch 27 May 2011 at 5:29 pm #

    People want their car to be so flush that they angle the wheels silly like. They think it looks “wicked” or “hella awesome”. I’m sure most of these dumbasses don’t think a bowlegged girl is attractive. Same analogy that sums it up. Both are “hella ugly”.

    RichBitch, OUT!

  139. Cody 28 May 2011 at 3:35 pm #

    I admit I drive a hellaflush car… My car is daily driven along with the hundreds of other hellaflush cars in Hawaii. Its not stupid and unfeasible to drive around. Speed bumps yes indeed take longer to go over but anyone who owns a lowered car has the same issue.if done right cars with this style produce both form and function. My Silvia is also a weekend warrior along with several other friends with stances cars. My stretched tires and aggressive fitting have yet to cause nothing more than little rub in my fenderwell… Everyone has a different idea on what they consider sick or clean… A few houses down someone owns a lifted subie with rally decals, its not something i think is hot but im sure dozens and dozens of people will have that same taste and consider it so… At the end of the day we are a community, the same exact people in a sense… And what ever you roll in, just rep it hard!

  140. teresa 23 June 2011 at 3:54 am #

    First of all, i am not a tuner, nor am i part of the automotive industry. I have one car that i enjoy driving daily. Mine is slightly modified to be lower and stiffer, but hardly hellaflush by any standard.

    I think the argument that people should not modify their cars because the design as stock is ideal is a little bit ignorant. Stock cars are designed for general use by the general population. They are usually safe, but not always (note all the recalls based on design flaws, engineering mistakes, and poor production.) Yes these people are professional, but no, they do not create a product that works perfectly for each driver, as it arrives from the factory. Modifications can be made without making the car unsafe. (sometimes it is more safe.)

    I am not saying hellaflush cars are safer than stock. But i am saying that they are not necessarily less safe. Please let’s not just assume the factory always gets it right. Ford Pinto.

    I will encourage the hellaflush community to be careful with their mods, and give these cars the special extra maintenance they need so that they can run safely on the road with the unmodded cars. All the people i have met in the hellaflush community do this. Just because the car looks aggressive doesn’t mean the driver is an idiot.

    Many of these cars are beautiful and i enjoy seeing them on the road and at events. The factory engineers probably wished they could have made these cars at the factory, but had to bland-down the design for a general population (more buyers, more money for the corporation.) And many of the people who design, create, and install aftermarket parts are as knowledgeable as the factory folks. (Sometimes they are the same folks.)

    Please don’t assume that the young enthusiasts are just reckless fools. Many of them are talented mechanics and craftsmen. Their hellaflush cars are their contribution to automotive diversity, style, and even beauty.

    If you want to worry about automobile accidents, worry about drinking, distracted driving, and inexperienced driving. These people with their modified cars are probably going to take care of their hard work and extra expense.

    This is one style of automotive expression. You don’t have to love it. But try to understand it before just hating.

    Thank you.

  141. Your Mom 29 June 2011 at 11:05 am #

    Stop bashing what other people like, if you don’t like it ignore. Don’t just tell people that they are wrong. thats just ignorant. there are all different types of car enthusiasts out there, who each like different things out of different cars.

    • Jesse 29 June 2011 at 11:42 am #

      Thanks, Mom. You always know just the right things to sa— waiiiiit a minute.

      I’m bashing people putting dangerous cars on public roads. Sure there are well-done stanced/hellaflush cars out there, but I’m not talking about those cars or those owners. I’m merely pointing out the flaws in the movement.

  142. Tomagachi 8 July 2011 at 6:03 am #

    Life style created by the Japanese they’ve done it in VIP n bosozoku which trace back into the 70s i don’t think it’s dumb people can do whatever they want who are u to judge a life style

  143. Tomagachi 8 July 2011 at 6:05 am #

    Ps their cars are also daily driven

  144. Tomagachi 8 July 2011 at 6:08 am #

    But anyways I’m more of a form and function guy if Hella flush dies then it dies but I’m pretty sure there’s going to be even more ridiculous car styles in the near future

  145. kumar 20 July 2011 at 8:22 pm #

    its your opinion and yes those sketchy as wanabe hells flush cars on cut spring that are way to bouncy and have to drive parrel to the dip to get over it scare the shit out of me but its your car you do whatever you want to do with (your car ) if it makes u happy and helps you go to sleep at night then all power to you but its their decission they have to live with the consequences

  146. Dalton 29 July 2011 at 7:36 pm #

    Hellaflush is a movement that attracts a lot of negativity from the other car cultures, but same could be said for other scenes like Rat Rod or Drift. Some people get it and others won’t. for the Stance kids cool =/= fast so they’ll obviously catch flak from the contemporaries but they are doing something that hasn’t been fully explored yet and I see that as a positive.

  147. they call me switchblade 6 August 2011 at 8:24 pm #

    I been around fast cars and bikes since I was stealin pop’s tools and giving him the wrong shit back when a 260 V8 was cool. The stance of a hellaflush car sucks ass for anything but show and I am sorry but was already played out way back in teh day sometime around when cholos were runnin 13′s and wires. You want cool kid? Cool is a car that can do anything and do it all well. Now it ain’t no expert in teh quarter(but turns in a respectable low two or one digit time). It does a 4.6 or better 0 – 60, and does the ton under 10. Now mind you, it matters jack or shit whther you do it with rice, beans or veggie juice. Fact is two of my favorite cars aside from my ’66 Stang are the little Alfa Super 1600, and the Sil-13/14/15. Me, I know how to set shit up. I can set any one of those up to scrub damn near any car in it’s class. You see, it ain;t about what ya got, it’s about being the best and fastest in class. You wanna run a C prep in B, go for it, but ya better be light and know how to run with the bigger dogs. Me, well I been doing it so long my little 110hp SPorty makes busa’s and other 900cc types wonder what the hell just went past them, and why they are hearin nothin but basso profundo roar and American Flag tail light. On the other hand, a Sil-14 can be set to run a healthy 9 seconds and son, drifting isn’t about a hand break, it’s about going so fast through a corner your ass end hangs out and your gas pedel sets ya right, that boy is drifting, you know, scrubbing speed at speed with your ass hanging out proper. The Stang does it well, but my tires don;t pop after 15 minutes of drifting…hahahah, emergency brakes, what the fuck???
    Schools out kids. Ya wanna get right? Don;t make a lot of noise, just let the clutch out. Build it right so it can Solo, run a time time attack, then roll soft with your favorite girl next to ya. That son, is what it’s all about!

  148. They call me Switchblade 7 August 2011 at 7:39 pm #

    Now let me see, here I posted a nice comment yesterday and seems someone didn’t like it enough. No balls boy? You coulda emailed me and let me know how to edit so you could put it up. Well let me try again, this time with a little enlightenment on ‘flush’.
    Having a nice wide wheel tire combo flush with the bodywork, or tucked in to the fender or under the flares has been the object of many a racer since your Sil’s were not even a thought, but the little 510, the Honey Bee, and that nice little surf lined sided GT 2000 Kenmeri were drifting race curbed tracks back in the day. Look at the old or the Vintage racer Alfa Romeo Super 1600′s. You want hellaflush, boy, they got it wired! A nice fat sticky bit of rubber that goes right to the edge and looks damn good. No real tilt either, just pure fat tire flush with the body that drifts every corner of the track at speed.
    Me, I got me this little ’66 Stang I have had since I was a kid. It drifts corners with ease, and will do even better with it’s 545hp 427/351 and it’s 17×8′s all around.
    Me, I’m a die hard gearhead. I love me some old American Iron, love my little cafe racer Sporty HD, and will kill for a manual trans S-14/15 with a RB20DET or a little Alfa Super 1600, either one with some seriously fat 245′s on some SSR Indy 500′s will look killer, but sorry brah, no big camber here, I use my parking brake to park with, and drifting comes easy when ya grew up on the twisties…kinda like the kid who delivers the tofu in that beat to shit little Hachi ;)
    Sure, Hellaflush is a style, no big, do what ya will, and sometimes even chicks dig it. Take your power NA from a square bored V8, or even a sick little 1.6 four, or a turbo’d Sil’s DET/T.
    It’s not about hatin on anyone, we all share the grease under our nails that embeds in our skin, then again, maybe some of you silver spoon fed brats ha ha ha yeah, it’s like that, but if your payin, we will build you what you want because we all love it in the end.
    I of course got a current project too…it’s a little twisted crazy thing. A 1954 Austin Healey BN1 100. The dude had it before me tried to stuff a Corvette ’72 lump 327 in it. Me, I got a nasty 11:1 350 for it with a Doug Nash 5 Speed trans. Picture it in candy ghetto flake red, and the funny part will be at the intersection when I’ll be looking at you in the inside lane in a semi drift from my windshield…HAHAHAHAHA yeah boy, hellafast!

    PS you got issue with my writing son, man up and email me about it and we can discuss it like grown men or maybe even a pair of gearheads. pss that Falcon is lookin good, you gonna dump a RB26DETT in it for kicks?

  149. Jae Rex 13 August 2011 at 8:07 am #

    I myself am a traditionalist and like a clean understated look and I understand the aesthetics of “hella-flush” because some of the cars look good standing still. What I don’t understand is the effort made to have stance that looks good, but has no function. I mean most of the cars with this kind of stance can barely be driven, and if so, so cautiously, that you can’t even enjoy driving. Just leaving a local show this past weekend, there was one of these “hella-flush” cars leaving the venue on the highway, and he was barely driving the speed limit! It was a very clean S2000. But to not be able to really DRIVE the car, that’s ridiculous.

  150. Vinnie 14 August 2011 at 1:07 pm #

    Two words – Air Suspension… solves all the problems the Author is complaining about.

  151. Daniel 29 August 2011 at 5:22 pm #

    People have the right to spend their money on whatever they want.

    I daily drive a DB Nissan 350z with 9.5″ Volk TE37 on the front, and 11″ Volk TE37 (+0) on the back. Mild stretch on the tires. It’s also twin turbo’d with a built engine, serves as my track car. I bet I can beat you in a straight line, corners and everything in between. Gas mileage? That’s an economic matter, I couldn’t care less about.

    If cars were regulated to be only for transportation, we wouldn’t have any motorsports, and everyone would most likely drive a government issue car and any modifications would be prohibited.

    Instead, we have show cars, and motorsport cars, and the non-car enthusiast cars. Freedom allows us to do whatever we please, and as such, I respect your right to write this article. As long as you respect my right to say that you’re an ignorant little man looking for online fame (or infamy) by way of speaking out against a social movement. Not a person cares about your opinion. Human beings have an instinct to personalize their things, it’s how we mark our property and express ourselves. Speaking out against that is anti-humanistic. You, sir, have failed, and a miserable failure at that.

    Most people don’t deserve an opinion, and you fall in to that category. However it is a human right that you get one, and that everyone else’s may differ. You’re not in court, you’re not making a case to anyone. Now think about what all your article has accomplished?

  152. Danny 4 September 2011 at 12:16 pm #

    Can i just say that The dude bashing on this, is an ass…Here’s why. I Bet he’s complained once or twice about people not being “Real” yet here he is talking mad shit about people doing what they love. Here’s a tip. Shut the fuck up and let people Live they’re life. You don’t See us picking on you for driving your mothers prius do you? Nah, so be real and keep doing you (And your right hand) And let people live they’re lives

    “…cause I never walked into another man’s house and tell em what I think about the way he lives…” Yelawolf

    • poonslayer425 20 September 2011 at 3:11 pm #

      your a faggot

  153. poonslayer425 20 September 2011 at 3:00 pm #

    you guys are all dumb fucks… my car is on 3.5 inch lowering springs and spaced out 5.5 inches and my rims are beaded and its hellasick so how about you posers shut the fuck up and trade in your minivans for something cool

  154. poonslayer425 20 September 2011 at 3:09 pm #

    your dumb as fuck and my “moms prius” is way more flush that whet ever peice of shit you drive so go buy something cool

  155. Red 17 October 2011 at 12:36 am #

    this blog is dumb. another attention wanting idiotic hate jelly blog. dont you think they dont know the consequences with this hellaflush style? well maybe some dont but people learns. get over it man. why bitch about it? not everybody is a vegetarian like you..

  156. Peter Hiest 29 October 2011 at 11:22 pm #

    This article is just pure awesome.

  157. Zach 1 November 2011 at 1:45 pm #

    TWO WORDS: PERSONAL TASTE.

    • Jesse 1 November 2011 at 1:49 pm #

      Personal taste is fine, and people can make their vehicles look however they’d like. What this article is about is reckless endangerment and people taking pride in driving a vehicle that is unfit for public roads. The few people who set up their super-low suspensions correctly, with reasonable amounts of camber, and no tire rubbing, and enough ground clearance to drive over pine needles are not what this article is about.

  158. Ant 1 November 2011 at 10:22 pm #

    Hellaflush is hellaghey. Function over form, kids.

  159. dasese 2 November 2011 at 6:01 pm #

    you guys are dumnb my brothers g35 is flush and he drifts it too. soo you shouldnt be in the car scene if your going to hate

    • Jesse 17 November 2011 at 10:36 pm #

      The word you are looking for is ‘dumb’, and if you’re arguing that it’s safe, then your wheels don’t rub against your fenders and you don’t bottom out … which, from what I’ve seen, disqualifies you from being flush.

  160. justin 13 November 2011 at 12:11 am #

    Your opinion is obviouly not researched on your end, I ride that same way your explainjng, daily driver on the highway with terrible roads, the point is its just a style like any other car style, that’s there car why do you care how they style it? Youbsaid hellaflush is a waste of time, I think you sitting down writing this was a waste of time, mostly because your comment holds no water fact wise

    • Jesse 17 November 2011 at 10:42 pm #

      I’m not arguing against the style, I’m arguing against how often this particular style happens to endanger others. Defending this style is like defending the ‘style’ of plane that randomly stalls and crash lands: because it could very well be my house that it crashes into, it bothers me. If you want to defend a dangerous style, fight against seatbelt laws and motorcycle helmet laws: at least a person not wearing a seatbelt or helmet doesn’t affect me. It just means that road cleanup crews have to use vacuums to clean up the mess, and they can drive the bags of leftovers straight to the morgue.

  161. Amused 17 November 2011 at 7:26 pm #

    Excellent article. Hellafrush = the new rice. The best part is the old rice-boys with underglow, cut-springs, shogun bodykits and 20 TVs knew he was all about show.

    The new rice-boy goes around the internet saying everyone else is doing it wrong when others aren’t “Stanced-out” or “slammed” etc ad naseum. This new breed of ricer actually thinks their screwed up suspension is superior to proven road-race setups.

    This is the difference. The old rice-boy knew they were all show and no-go. The new rice-boy is full of hate and continually denies the reality that they are following a fad.

    • Jesse 17 November 2011 at 10:46 pm #

      I think most wheel fitment enthusiasts know they aren’t going to be fast, but I definitely see where you’re coming from on them being hateful, defensive, and myopic. It makes me a little sad that so many years of rich automotive culture have produced such a juvenile and disrespectful fad.

  162. FuqURShitCauseIDGAF 1 December 2011 at 3:28 am #

    I think you’d look even more cool of you’re actually driving your ride hard instead of hard parking it.
    Function will always win over form. Yea your shit might have a well tuned SR or JZ or LS and a super clean engine bay with a $10K aero kit while sitting on a set that costed you more than $4k…but what’s the point of having all that shit if you can’t use it for what it was intended?

    Like mentioned above, “Hellaflush is just new-age rice”
    A lot of people who attend Hellaflush meets here in the US, their rides “flush” was a direct consequence of a proper build up and as a result have naturally occurring “flush” but when you sacrifice function for form that’s when you’re no longer a car enthusiast you’re an ego-maniac, spending all of this money to try and look cool but end up looking more stupid instead.
    The Hellaflush scene in Japan is way more legit than the scene here in the US because they give priority to function and then worry about form and looking cool after the form has been taken care of. There shouldn’t even be a Hellaflush scene in Japan only because they’ve always built cars the right way (at least the people who know what’s up)
    I agree with Jesse with this article.

  163. Rukis5420 6 December 2011 at 6:50 pm #

    I’m all for the “Hell flush” look. What I think is wack, is the peeps out there that try to pull off the look so bad that the car is no longer functional? Did I miss something? Does “Hella Flush” = Grandma driving? As for me I’m running 15 x 8 star 8′s with stretched 195/50/15 Toyo R888′s on my fully built civic EG, slammed pretty hard w/rolled fenders & q.panels. I personally drive the hell out of my car, and she still looks show ready! Dnt get me wrong, if it’s a straight show car, then all good slam it too the floor, but If it’s your only car, and a street car at that, stop being a biotch and adjust your set-up to drive & enjoy your shitt. I’ll have a new vid of my set-up in the next month so you can see her. To anyone getting offended, I’m not hating by all means. I’m just sorry that you can’t enjoy your car like I do!

    • Anthony 2 September 2012 at 12:44 pm #

      have you ever done auto-x?? and where did you place??

  164. US.ARMY 11B 6 January 2012 at 12:30 pm #

    No one gives a fuck, stick to your plain stock car. we customize it the way we want. no one gives a shit about your opinion! >.<'

  165. EGHatch 12 January 2012 at 12:51 am #

    I came on this website to get more information about “hellaflush” performance. It seems like people who slammed their cars consider theirs to be hellaflushed and bash at his comment for hating on hellaflush. Then there are those who point out that racecars are insanely lowered and use that as their focus to prove that Jesse is wrong. So… What is that considered Hellaflush? I’m still confused… Is it a subjective thing? Or objective? Is airbagging Hellaflush? Or is it only considered Hellaflush when you drop the air so that the car is scraping on the ground?
    In any case, I’m glad I came on this website for another reason; Jesse pointed out one important thing: LOWERING YOUR RIDE INVOLVES RISKS IF NOT DONE PROPERLY AND/OR WITHOUT PROPER FUNDING. If my friend said that he cut the springs on his car, I will never let him drive me around. You can tell Jesse to F off and let you artists do whatever they want to their car, but bottomline is that Jesse just wants you to be aware of the risks involved. But yeah. I’m quite positive that he would not drive an unsafe car and the reasons are obvious. If you also think that he should just let unsafe people be unsafe, why is that? What if someone close to your family did a Hellaflush unsafe on their car and ends up injuring themselves seriously or even killing themselves over reducing a few silly inches from the ground? Well, I think this benefits not to the Hellaflush community but to the CAR COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE to point out that lowering your car must absolutely be done profesionally. There were a billion other things Jesse could have argued about, but he decided to tackle this one. Why hate him for it?

    P.S those of you who think Jesse is hating, mannn fine let him think that. Just keep 1 thing in mind: If you lowered your car improperly, don’t get others involve. Call it art, call it whatever you want. Don’t risk other people’s lives over your art.

    • Jesse O'Brien 17 January 2012 at 10:14 am #

      I could hug you right now.

    • Siraj 3 April 2012 at 9:20 am #

      Risk peoples lives? Wow a little extreme you and Jesse must sit on the couch and watch the Notebook and then wipe eachothers tears. You guys are making things up out of your asses when have you turned on a tv and saw breaking news “Hellaflush car kills 23 in major suspension failure” ???

      • Jesse O'Brien 3 April 2012 at 12:58 pm #

        Siraj, I didn’t quote any specific accidents because it’s considered ‘common knowledge’ that improper suspension modifications are dangerous. That’s why automotive safety inspections forbid modification of ride height or control arm geometry for public roads. If you’re looking for some proof that improperly modified suspension is a safety hazard, try searching on Google. Better yet, search for owners of ‘stanced’ cars who are frantically trying to place blame elsewhere. My arguments are based upon physics and a deep knowledge of suspension design. Extreme camber decreases contact patch area, which decreases available traction (which determines how effectively an accident can be avoided). Extreme lowering of a car decreases the amount of available suspension travel, causing skittish handling over bumps. Several stanced cars that I’ve seen (even those done right) have less than 2″ of suspension travel before hitting the bump stops. Modified suspension isn’t inherently dangerous, but the hellaflush movement encourages stupid, dangerous builds.

        This is unsafe, and is ‘why hellaflush sucks’:
        Unsafe Hellaflush

        This looks very aggressive, but safe:
        Safe Hellaflush

        There’s a reason the article isn’t entitled “All Hellaflush Sucks”. I’m not making that argument at all. However, you’re trying to make the argument that there aren’t any dangerous Hellaflush cars on the street? I think now would be a good time to revisit your argument. You’re getting very upset about what one person on the internet said.

  166. RCR 18 January 2012 at 2:48 pm #

    What really bothers me about this “Hellaflush” stuff is the amount of genuinely nice cars that are being ruined. Please, leave the M3 alone!

  167. shane 21 January 2012 at 3:05 pm #

    I agree with some, its a tast thing I drive a eg that I hillclimb and track. I like the flush hard illest bro stance nation what ever fitment scene. but its not for me. I need a normal 7 or 8 inch wheel up front doesnt effect top speed and wont efect scrub radius and spring rate. This is just a scene stance peaple dont want or need to go fast I will agree with some posters above you can make a fitted car work but once you start extreme stretching and -6 camber you hurt performance. Im trying to talk a good friend out of this for his little EF civic but hes new to the honda scene and doesnt understand.

    We sit around and talk about how Fatlace has ruined RWB and a lot of other shit. So we came up with this
    http://hardesteverbro.com/

    • Ron 7 February 2012 at 8:06 pm #

      Hey Shane, can you elaborate on how Fatlace ruined RWB and other shit? Enlighten me.

  168. Patrick 13 February 2012 at 10:55 pm #

    These people don’t “heart” haters at all. I would get StanceNation pictures some of my less intelligent friends would “like” on facebook so they would show up in my news feed. I got banned from making comments after I made the admin mad or something because I said “nothing says rally car like retarded camber that will shred the sidewalls of your tires” on a pictures of a “hallaflush” WRX.

    It doesn’t take much to figure out the people aren’t the brightest or most successful in out society though… it’s better than stealing right?

  169. mike 15 February 2012 at 1:13 pm #

    i couldnt sit and read all of the comments, hellaflush is a new style than is overtaking a ton of the stupid rice that had been an eyesore. but like any style that comes in people always over due it and ruin it. just gotta deal with it and keep your own style. i know tons of peoeple that love all th styles in moderation as do i. im currently slamming my celica (daily) for a “flusher” look but still have my toy (evo8) for the function part of my addiction. i get that it ruins the diability and performance but thats not what they want- thewy want show. enjoy the hobby! cya out there everyone ;)

  170. Andrew 27 February 2012 at 5:32 am #

    Ya know theres a very simple saying that ends all of this nonsense. “don’t knock it till you try it” I was raised around american muscle and I personally hated anything and everything honda/nissan/mazda/toyota etc..Until I picked up a 1993 Honda Civic EK coupe last year because it was to good of a deal and I love it! Since I’ve got the car I’ve sunk some money into it, it now sits 4in lower than factory ride height on fully adjustable coilovers, aftermarket control arms,struts, wheels, tires and so on.. The car handles like a dream and if i would’ve saw this article 2 years ago i would’ve been right there with you, but again as the saying goes “don’t knock it till you try it”. I see both sides and i believe it is redicilous when people simply cut their springs, don’t have the vehicle aligned properly and their front tires have belts hanging out of them from it. Thats unsafe and flat out stupid. Then again putting a built 383 stroker in an s10(me) or restoring a 66 falcon(Jesse)is redicilous to some people too. Not trying to bash on anyones views just simply stating my opinion. Andrew

  171. sean 16 March 2012 at 11:39 am #

    I have money.. let me spend it.
    My car is still driven daily….
    My car is “hellaflush”….
    Id prefer to look good cruising along the highway, instead of hot rodding around collecting tickets looking like a tool.
    Sure i cant pull into my driveway…
    or go over speed bumps…
    doesnt bother me one bit. My style is my style.
    I love how all these Subaru/Evo/s2000/mustang/camaro types think they drive a “race car.” Last i checked they were passenger vehicles?

    • Anthony 2 September 2012 at 7:25 pm #

      actually the evo and STI are both 4 door sports cars. these cars in stock form turn better lap times then any of these hellaflush cars. you show me one turning better times and i’ll change my whole opinion of the “movement”.

  172. aux 19 March 2012 at 11:07 pm #

    these comments are actually not what your tiny minds misconstrue as “hating” rather they are gross reactions to the hideous sight that one cannot unsee. the reason so many feel motivated to display negative reaction toward it is because most people understand that it is scientifically proven to be incorrect in relation to proper tire use and wheel alignment. basically, this is an example of a battle between right and wrong. people who stand to speak the truth and spread knowledge in hopes to lead other upon the right path defending against idiots who desire only to shit in the face of everything that so many have worked for all in the name of irrationality and disregard for what is right exhibiting blatant disregard for the facts, pulling so many others to ruin in your wake. it is not “hating” but rather it is the simple acknowledgement of what the eyes perceive to be as wrong. considering that the majority who have commented here stand against your cause, with all due respect you can take your ignorant fad, wear it upon your face, and promptly insert head into fucking ass and whisper of shit to more ..doting company.

  173. Will 22 March 2012 at 8:14 am #

    Okay I’m seeing a lot of posts saying that this guy is “hating”, let’s go over what the real definition of “hating” is.

    1. hating

    When one puts down the success or fortune of others due to jealousy.

    Pretty sure this guy isn’t hating, he definitely isn’t jealous of hellaflush. I love how in the last 5 years any one who has a disagreement of anything is a “hater”.

    Everyone who is claiming this guy is a hater is just ass hurt not everyone agrees with their style. If you really didn’t give a shit what this guy had to say then you wouldn’t bother to post. End.

  174. Will 22 March 2012 at 8:36 am #

    Also, if you do the whole “hellaflush” thing, read this article, then come back and enlighten us on what you just read. READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE, ALL PAGES. Jesse I think you would be quite happy to read this.

    http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_articles/articletype/articleview/articleid/1712/the-ultimate-handling-guide-part-v-the-one-unforgivable-sin-overlowering-your-car.aspx

    article written by Mike Kojima, and I’m pretty sure he knows more about suspension then most of the dudes posting here.

    • Jesse O'Brien 22 March 2012 at 1:51 pm #

      Will, that article is framed on my garage wall right now. Thanks very much for pointing it out to me.

  175. James 25 March 2012 at 6:55 am #

    Its once again the few that have ruined a good thing for the many. I love a nice slammed car with some OG’s on it, but these idiots that stretch tires and think its okay to put other drivers at risk by roaming around with suspension components almost at breaking point and rubbing against eachother to boot just make the rest of us look like idiots. If youre going to do something, do it right and make sure all the supporting mods are there and youre safe. Otherwise we may aswell all be driving around on cut springs with screwdriver holes stabbed into our mufflers. Peace.

  176. Kiarash 28 March 2012 at 9:57 am #

    Hellaflush is garbage. It’s impractical. I’m old school. Stretching tires on mini trucks back in 88 was stupid, and it’s stupid to do the same today on any car. Rice or Kraut. It doesn’t look good. It looks like the car is broken. What’s wrong with that car? That’s what people think when they see it. Not..wow that’s cool! I have to be honest though. I’m not saying that having tires that almost rub is stupid the fenders. That’s called trying to get the widest possible tires under your car…. I think stretched tires with ridiculous camber is stupid. And anyone that makes their car less practical and harder to drive is a moron. What’s next, wooden wheels because they are the trend. Lets do something really impractical as a car movement. Not just impractical, but unsafe at the same time. Glass wheels, or wood wheels. Or plexiglass doors. Basically what I mean is…tires stretched on to the point of almost popping off, and 6 degrees of negative camber are just as stupid and a waste as having wood wheels, or a plexiglass car cuz some idiot likes the way it looks. Hellaflush is hella gay. And I don’t mean gay as in homosexual. I mean gay as in the stupidest thing I can say has ever happened in the car movement.

    • Anthony 2 September 2012 at 12:37 pm #

      I can see the reason behind stretching tires… i keeps the sidewall from flexing under turns, but low profile tires do the same. and stretching them too far just goes way beyond what they were originally meant to do. drag racing you want them to flex. gives better traction on launch. some of these guys just dont know what they want. or go too far from what the tires were designed to do.

  177. drew 1 April 2012 at 7:20 pm #

    being old school doesnt have nothing to do with it lol
    but i do agree lots of haters but were going to have haters no matter what it can be a fa5 or an slk hella flush is what it is some people will love it some people will hate it some people do it right some people dont which makes it unsafe. i have a fa5 si which i run at hallet race way and daily drive i am hella flush slammed cambered all this in which you all hate on … but i can take a corner in the track over 47mph ..while staying planted and being about to gunn it out of the hole with a single bit of tire spin or body roll .. i just love having fun in my car as should you . in my off time i uncamber and stay slammed and my car gos from an auto x to a drag racer in thundervalley .. i like unpractical as much as practical ? i dont know form over function i guess lol ftw

  178. brendan 3 April 2012 at 2:07 am #

    I think you got it all wrong. hella flush aint about performance its about LOW and SLOW, much like lowriders. yeah they are show cars and made to be driven kinda slow but if you do it the right way its usually the perfect drift setup with slight camber and im not talkin about that 80 mph drift crap im talkin steady. sexy and sideways like when u drift in the rain.

  179. Siraj 3 April 2012 at 9:11 am #

    Your article was interesting to read however i found that you seem to be talking with no solid evidence. Trust me i completely understand your views because i am the same when it comes to practicality, quality, simplicity and elegance of a car in its natural form. The issue with your comments and article, which actually is saddening because its a reminder of how the Internet is nothing more than a platform for people like you who have no real logical, backed reasons, to complain or express dislike. Lets start with your constant reference to DANGEROUS, UNSAFE, HARMFUL TO OTHERS ON THE ROAD. Please do provide us with a solid example of when someone was killed, hurt, and any instance where there was something caused due to a car from the HELLAFLUSH world. If you are going to list off reasons like it is solely cosmetic but then on the other hand go and write about how much you like round headlights and how appealing they are. I know your going to say oh that’s different because of the amount of effort and money that goes into intentionally making your car hellaflush vs simple round elegant lights. Your article was intriguing until you began to say its a direct replacement for show and ricer movements. It is clear that you have no real understanding of cars and have convinced yourself that your “elegant view” of how cars should be is the correct way. Next time you decide to comment on things maybe you should choose something you know, like being a hypocrite. Your argument is based on the concept that its makes no sense and is not necessary, well then neither are cars in whole, walk or ride a bike if you are that much of a purist. I don’t like low riders but i appreciate them, i don’t like hot rods, muscle cars, or multiple other genres but i would never disrespect their efforts or work. Think about it, your main point in most of these comments is danger and endangering others?? Come on man people who use cars as nothing more than transportation cause and have more accidents than any car tuning community. If any of you believe that people who spend money to make their car hella flush or look nice are not car enthusiast then maybe you should look at yourself because altering cars in general is not the definition of a true car enthusiast.

  180. Kenny 8 April 2012 at 6:21 pm #

    Truth hurts! Well said Jesse.

  181. jdm game 13 April 2012 at 3:03 pm #

    I can’t belive so many of ya are bashing on stance listen is not for ev rybody first second not all of ya can afford it and 3 is a way of selfexpresion is hard work I own 3 cars one of them is ny toy yeaaa I can do that I can afford to play with 1 of my cars I own a rav 4 which I drive evrywere to work out with the kids and wife my stance eg hatch just in ocasion. My 98 integra anytime I want and is slam on coilovers is been like that for 2 years and no problems did it the rigth way skunk2 suspension all around enjoy life and do wut u love wut ever makes happy just don’t call it dumb rather said u don’t understand the point thanks

    • Jesse O'Brien 14 April 2012 at 11:46 am #

      Is your computer the only one without spellcheck?

  182. widi 14 April 2012 at 3:16 am #

    hey man, that altis is my car. literally. the way you said that hellaflush is unsafe, i agree with you. but dont make an assumption that hellaflush or any kind of flush is dumb or sucks. that’s the way of hellaflush life. i know its hard to drive but i like it. beside my car is daily driven. so if you want to make a post like this, think again because there are so many drivers out there that make their car hellaflush like i did to mine

    • Jesse O'Brien 14 April 2012 at 11:43 am #

      There are certainly safe ways of getting the same look, and Im not saying every hellaflush car is bad at all. Im saying that cars that were lowered properly and keep their camber reasonable and dont shred tires get the same amount of attention as the deadly sleds that shower the road with sparks and rubber. The point to take away is that this hellaflush lifestyle allows and even encourages dangerous cars on the road. In my book, thats as bad as encouraging texting while driving or street racing. That is what makes it dumb, and why I took the time to express my views. Thanks for reading and keeping your cool, it sounds like youre trying to move the hellaflush culture to a more mature state than most of my commentators.

  183. doughboy007 14 April 2012 at 6:19 pm #

    its all good for shows. just keep the damm things off the streets. takes you guys 10 mins. to go in or out of a driveway

    • Jesse O'Brien 16 April 2012 at 1:51 pm #

      I couldn’t agree more. A lot of these cars look awesome, but really aren’t capable of safely driving on public roads.

  184. BobbyEASTCOAST 15 April 2012 at 6:34 am #

    In my opinion, Hellaflush is for the people who cannot drive their cars how they’re really meant to be. So they turn to lowering it as far as they can, and calling it the ‘movement of the decade’ in cars. I find that false, because in my book, and my fathers (Which would be frequent autocross events and some road racing, avoiding potholes, and side-walking speedbumps isn’t driving. You guys can continue to waste tires, time, and money on something that is only good looking when it’s sitting still, while the rest of us will continue to make sure our cars perform on the track and street to their fullest performance potential.

  185. j'f jefferied 16 April 2012 at 11:47 am #

    completely involved within the “flush”movement, I’d for sure say before assumption are made base upon visual appearance-you should actually take into account what all is done to make flushed/stanced cars functional; and or simply just drive straight! A ton of work and HELLA expensive! Don’t get me wrong, wen executed incorrectly things could get ugly… But for the guy or even women that takes the movement seriously its more than just stuffin the fattest wheels you can find into the wheel wells. It’s a lifestyle…culture! Same as lowlows(as they call low riders in cali area) a lifestyle in which most enthusiasts sacrifice.. many hungry nights. NowNOW* most judge unknowing the car thats bein hated on wheels and tires alone cost more than 3mos worth of net salary! Lls to end I believe people should respect the work/time/MONEY put into any car.

    • Jesse O'Brien 16 April 2012 at 1:54 pm #

      Personally, I have no problem with those who take the time to dial in their suspension geometry and work out the bumpsteer, camber, and (sometimes) caster issues that come with building a lowered suspension system. My only argument against respecting the work/time/money people put into their cars is that all the work/time/money in the world isn’t worth anything if the end result is unsatisfying.

  186. Mamoru Kouki 16 April 2012 at 2:16 pm #

    stance/hellaflush is another story bro. flushing is more on wheels, tires, offset and camber adjustments. unlike those F’in RICE cars with useless bodykits, huge wings, and those noisy fart cans.

    compare these sexy cars

    (photos from stancenation.com)

    with this junks

    • Mamoru Kouki 16 April 2012 at 2:22 pm #

      sorry . my bad . here’s the pics

      FLUSHED/STANCE :
      http://www.stancenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/newsnthumb7-630×400.jpg

      http://www.stancenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/10-640×409.jpg

      RICE :

      http://jdmcars.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/poserh.jpg

      http://honda-tech.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55376&stc=1&d=1247987984

      • Jesse O'Brien 16 April 2012 at 3:01 pm #

        Agreed, they’re different trends altogether, but both have had negative effects on automotive culture. Even if the people doing it right are making works of art, the people emulating them are doing such a nasty, messy job of it that they’re dragging the overall perception of automotive enthusiasts down the drain.

      • Kiarash 17 April 2012 at 2:10 pm #

        WOW. You give us two examples of clean show cars, and two of ridiculous cars build by who knows who in who knows what country. The King Cab truck..not hella flush. There was nothing flush about that. The tires and wheels stuck out past the wheel wells. We did that shit back in 88. Instead of putting on a tire and wheel combo that works well with the car, it looks like a turtle about to take a crap. And the RSX. That wasn’t hellaflush. That was just a sick car with the widest possible tires and wheels combo on it. Nothing retarded about that. The two other cars were the worse examples to try to prove your point. Yes body kits got out of hand in the late 90′s and early 2000′s but that fad is over…just like the fad of Hellaflush will be over soon. Once this generation of fake car guys and followers are done, and moved on they will move to whatever else they think is cool. Here is the deal. Guys will do whatever it is to fit in. Being a REAL CAR GUY from day one I got my first car at 15 before I had my license. And I’ve had modified cars since then. Probably about 30 of them. I have seen them come and go. people want to fit in. So if their friend are doing it, they will to. Ask me how many people I know that drove mini trucks back in the day because they met one of us, and decided they wanted to “be cool”. How many went out and bought modified Civics and Integras when the import craze was at it’s peak. Where are they now. They drive wagons, and mini Vans. They chimed in to the fad, they jumped on the bandwagon, they followed their friends, and did what they did. But they did it not from the heart, but from their asses. They were full of shit. You don’t see real car guys doing this garbage to their cars. Perfect example. My neighbor just got done putting air bags on his Mazda 2. And it looks sick. He has a set of 54′s on it, and it goes way way low. But he doesn’t have 7 degrees of negative camber, and he didn’t over stretch the tires on the rims. There is mild negative camber, and a little bit of stretch. Looks really really good. Before that he had a Mazda 3 that he showed and auto crossed. A real car guy, builds cars that have meaning, and are practical. Thats it. Hellaflush will always be hella “not cool” And to those that say we can’t afford it. Your an idiot. Throw your money away banging hookers instead. At least you will get a nut off. I’m not an idiot to throw my heard earned money away cuz of some fad. My Volk GTNs will never see anything more than 1.5 degrees of negative camber. And that’s only cuz it makes the car handle just that much better. Another 2 cents from Kiarash..making it 4 cents total. LOL

  187. Mamoru Kouki 19 April 2012 at 7:03 am #

    Well … we have our own different styles and different point of views .. we both love to race but i have a stanced s13 for daily driving and 180sx for tracks. yea, you’re right they’re both old but i love em both..

    just have do it right ..

    if you want to cruise …
    low, steady and safe

    if you want to race …
    fast, agile and also safe

    PS:

    im not really a fan of those OVER ACTING HELLAcars with HELLACAMBER, thats why the first two photos i posted has the right amount of camber adjustment with nice rim+tire combo . thats what i call STANCE ..

    CASE CLOSED ? .. CHEERS :)

    • Mamoru Kouki 19 April 2012 at 11:04 am #

      redundancy spotted . sorry .. lol

  188. LEN SAYERS 25 April 2012 at 12:18 pm #

    HI BEEN READING THESE POSTS I THINK THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN STYLES THAT PEOPLE ARE INTO AND IN EVERY STYLE THERE ARE EXTREMES SOME DONE WELL AND SOME DONE BAD YOU CANT GENERALIZE ITS LIKE SAYING EVERYONE FROM ONE COUNTRY IS THICK THIS WOULD NOT BE EXCEPTABLE AND THE SAME SHOULD BE FOR PEOPLE MAKING COMMENTS LIKE THIS KEEP AN OPEN MIND BE HAPPY FOR OTHER PEOPLES STYLE INCOURAGE WHERE YOU CAN STAND BACK AND WATCH IF THEY RUIN THERE CAR THAS THERE BUSINESS I RUN A E36 328I I HAVE BEEFED IT UP SLAMMED IT ON COILOVERS AND HAVE TEN J REARS ON 17S RAN DAILY NO PROBS LOL NEVER HEASRD OF HELLA BUT WE CALL IT EURO LOOK I HAVE SEEN BEETLES THAT LOOK LIKE THEY HAVE BEEN DRIVEN OUT OF A SCRAP YARD ITS CALLED THE RAT LOOK BUT I DONT MOCK THEM ITS INDIVIDUALITY AND THATS GREAT DONT ASSUME THAT YOUR SO PERFECT THAT YOU CAN KNOCK ANOTHERS INDIVIDUALITY

  189. HXC LOL 26 April 2012 at 5:32 pm #

    I understand your point entirely. When a “stance” car becomes a garage queen, that’s when it’s ridiculous. And when you’re running 10″ wide wheels on 195/45 tires, you need to take a step back and realize that you’re turning a mild niche in the car scene into an absolutely obscene monster.

    BUT, before you say something about a fairly specific movement in the “stance” world, you should make sure you’re criticizing within the bounds of that movement. Some of the things you described would not be considered “hellaflush.” What’s funny is that some of the people that posted comments paid no regard to that fact (probably because they didn’t know the differences themselves) and just hopped on the “BRO DONT TALK SHIT ABOUT HELLAFLUSH BRO YOU STUPED” bandwagon.

    Anyway, there are no real practical applications of hellaflush. It does take away from the performance of the car. But as long as it’s safe to drive at a regular speed, and you enjoy it, you should have every right to do it. As soon as you’re removing sway bars for ground clearance, you’re too low.

    BAGS – Completely fine in my book. Very nice looking when parked, ride very nicely, and they’re just all around practical. They don’t all handle like caddys, and so what if they do? Caddy owners seem to enjoy the ride, and if someone wants that kind of feel in their own car, totally cool. But get some nice, stiff struts, air out the bags a little, and you can go nuts on some twisties.

    Now, there are so many things wrong with the stance scene these days than I care to even explore at the moment, such as the annoying overuse of the words “hella,” “slammed,” etc.

    But hey, there’s a need for extremists so us level-headed folk can balance ourselves out a little. They draw the line for when it becomes ridiculous. If you’re a fan of something, it’s normal for people to expect you to be able to defend it. Do what you want with your car, just be safe, and don’t be a fucking ignorant nut.

    Come at me, fanboys.

  190. bitchplease 4 May 2012 at 5:18 pm #

    This shit has been going on in the VW scene for a while, and on the east coast to. Idk why they use stupid terms like “hella” but whatever. If you have to DD your shitbox 2.0l jetta why not at least make it look nice. I personally think thats how the “stance” scene got started. And it was a cool little thing that they did. Now every doucher with a 350z is doing it. I dont understand why you would take a good handling car like a miata and ruin it with stacne. Thats the only problem I have with it. Ruining performance cars. You can have a nice agressive stance to your car and actually improve the handling characteristics at the same time.

  191. yomama 8 May 2012 at 7:21 pm #

    your fkin stupid the hellaflush scene is nice.your just another hater that cant afford the parts to be HELLAFLUSHED so of course your bound to hate.i bet your white and drive a ford focus .GTFO here with that ford falcon? shit aint even flush. haters gon hate

  192. brandon 9 May 2012 at 12:09 pm #

    dear author

    idk what ‘hella flush’ cars your talking about, but my shits flush and pretty damn low and i drive the piss out of my car. get over it. its not your car.

    • Jesse O'Brien 9 May 2012 at 12:38 pm #

      Nowhere in the article does it say that “All flush cars suck”. Not even once. There are certainly good, high-quality, safe-to-drive examples too. The whole point of the article is to point out that the people who’re doing it wrong (like yomama, I’d assume) are a danger, and are making people who’re doing it right (like you, from the sounds of it) look bad.

  193. Hellafunctional 10 May 2012 at 9:10 pm #

    For the hundredth time… The author is not hating on the cars that have been put together with knowledge and thought. He is talking about the cars that kids slam on stretchy tires with no real knowledge of what they are doing. Those cars are unsafe. I witnessed a “hellaflush” 350z take off down the highway the other day only to hit a bump, bottom out and deploy his airbags. I’m not a fan but if you do it correctly then there is nothing wrong at all. The only “helladumb” thing here is the cars that are put together incorrectly and become dangerous. The author made that very clear from the start. Maybe “hellaflush” kids aren’t hella good at reading?

  194. AUTONERD 16 May 2012 at 1:32 pm #

    When it first started, this Hellaflush movement was hella-awesome looking. Not my cup of tea, but awesome. And after everything that is awesome, come barnacles that want to make it awesome-er for their own notoriety. Retardation ensues. It’s funny. Laugh about it. The “real” guys will stick around (just like the Honda “ricers”) and when the barnacles clear, they’ll have their second day in the sun.
    My own interests, and yours too it seems, follow the words of a wise old man “Speed NEVER goes out of style” ;)

  195. Xero 27 May 2012 at 10:06 pm #

    I’ve raced for the last decade and I don’t understand why people waste money on show cars, hella flush and other ridiculous trends.

    The other day I saw a golf GTI with a plate frame that read “HellaFlush: Offset is everything.”

    I had to roll my eyes at how stupid this made the driver look to anyone who knows anything about track performance.

    Just like all this trend of garbage Ken Block started. Watch the Global Rally Cross Events, Marcus Gronholm destroys everyone. It’s a joke.

  196. mee 18 June 2012 at 4:28 am #

    don’t blame the cars for safety, blame the driver. that is where you are wrong making accusations toward the movement itself. it is right to say the drivers adopting the movement are unsafe, however associating the driver to represent an “art” or “style” is uneccesary. essentially, the “hellaflushed” movement is popular among minority groups and the younger generations. youth can be easily associated with lack of maturity. knowing this it makes sense to associate the jdm style with dangerous drivers but not dangerous cars. everyone is entitled to there own opinion whether or not they use their car for practical reasons or for show.

  197. U-IDIOT 4 July 2012 at 10:58 am #

    Risking peoples lives? I would say yeah for those dumb people with low budget …if proper set up is done with high quality parts there’s nothing to worry about it…..now I think u guys r haters and don’t know to do hellaflush ….stock= boring…

    • Jesse O'Brien 6 July 2012 at 1:16 pm #

      Nobody here is complaining about proper set ups with quality components/fabrication.

  198. Hellaflush 6 July 2012 at 2:06 am #

    Let people do whatever the fuck they want with their car.

  199. Ramel 1 August 2012 at 5:50 pm #

    I Truly Understand How All You Guys Feel. Yea Some People Take It To Far, But You Have To Give Respect To Them For Having Creative Minds! But Everybody Is Going To Have Their Own Opinion! Like The Older People That Knows How A Car Suppose To Look Is Not Going To Like It, But The Young Teenagers And Young Adults Loves It Because They Feel That It’s Something New And They See A Lot Of People Doing It.! Like For Example I’m Only 17 But I Been Studying Cars All My Life I Like The Hellaflush Style But I’m More Into The Original Jdm And Hellaflush Style! So There’s No Need For The Big ‘o Argument Because Somebody Disagree With The Hellaflush Style!

    • Anthony 2 September 2012 at 12:33 pm #

      creative and something different yet a lot of people are doing it??

      something different = getting two airbrush artists to do what they decide on each side of a lexus is250.

      bandwagon = building a rice burning honda civic with a body kit ridiculous wing and a cold air intake and trying to race the sleeper hondas or muscle cars.

      something different would be something you dont see very often. one guys stuffed a 2JZ into an S10. how often do you see that?

  200. Anthony 2 September 2012 at 12:28 pm #

    I dont like the hellaflush cars personally… i’m more of a performance car person. dont get me wrong, lowered is nice, but they start stretching wheels and putting on crazy offset and some of them make the wheels poke out and put on rim protector tires. some are done clean, and i think even with looking good a car should still be functional in some way. the M3 looks sik, the corolla, is still a corolla regardless of what you do. but, it’s tastefully done until you see the wheels.they’re starting to look like real life hotwheel cars. no different from another version of Donks (and i hate them too) i’ve seen cars slammed with decent wheels that i’d rate over them. less is more. just do up the rides tastefully.
    for those of you that are going to say “Well what do you drive? a prius?” here’s my truck. a 200 s10 xtreme with eagle alloy 212′s sitting about 6 inches off the ground. in process of building a 383 stroker motor for it. [IMG]http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss63/sik1dime/2012-04-24_17-22-19_156.jpg[/IMG]

    basically, i’d rather see clean cars that can be driven then trailer queens. i dont feel any different about muscle cars that are trailer queens and only come out when there’s a show and it’s not raining.

  201. simonstiFLUSH 7 September 2012 at 10:10 pm #

    you are helladumb. yea with cut springs and cheap shit its gona look bad. hellaflush cars can be hellafunctional lol. you must be HELLAMAD that nobody looks at your car as you drive. U MAD BRO?? STOP HATIN

  202. alex88 23 September 2012 at 6:02 pm #

    at the end of the day, threads like this only help the scene grow. mind your business and keep hating if you please :D

    • Jesse O'Brien 24 September 2012 at 11:21 am #

      I hope it does grow, but in a positive way. I’d love to see the ‘scene’ improve and implement solid engineering principles to build cars that both look cool and drive correctly.

  203. Michael 30 October 2012 at 8:45 pm #

    hey, you guys realize that no one can possibly win this argument. I’m 13 and live in Wisconsin so I can take neither side in this argument. I don’t see why you have to be mad. I don’t like ricers, but do my a favor and show me the 100% proven guide that everyone can agree on that the world, not just a scene, considers a ricer. People can defend any style they like and really, criticizing others won’t make you car look cooler/get faster lap times or quarter miles. I would say to each their own but I will be called a “ghandi style hater” What i’m saying is just try to see with open eyes to everything. The next car meet I attend, which is near physically impossible where I live, I plan to give kudos to both sides. I like everything from bee dragon cima to cyber evo and spirit rei odyvia. They all are efforts to bring the car community closer. So, don’t try to win this argument, you can’t. But you CAN move on.

    thanks, oh and don’t gimme crap about my age, trust me, I’ve heard everything

    • Jesse O'Brien 30 October 2012 at 9:05 pm #

      You’re missing the point. This isn’t an attack on a style. This is pointing out that a frightening number of enthusiasts make their cars unsafe, which is unacceptable.

      • Patrick 10 February 2013 at 7:17 pm #

        yes it is you tear it apart you even named the article helladumb and trashed the entire scene you never once pointed out any good examples you only pointed out the last car that came factory the rest was talking shit once you write an article back it up the only message that has been recieved by your article is that hellaflush is for idiots as shown by the comments of people agreeing with that statement and others disagreeing with it none agreeing with your article saying that it can be done right nor do you state it what about “I’m going to keep calling it Hellaflush because that term pretty much sums up everything I dislike about it” and this “Why it’s hella dumb
        Cars are made to be driven. They’re transportation. Hellaflush is solely cosmetic, at great expense to driveability. Hellaflush cars look interesting and aggressive when they’re parked, but it’s a facade. They aren’t aggressive. They aren’t allowed on self-respecting racetracks, have troubles on the highway, and if your driveway is graded, they’ll park on the street.
        Essentially, I see the hellaflush movement as a direct replacement for the show car movement. Both are idiotic in the same, undriveable, RICE ways.” is not an attack on the style a good author backs up their statements and doesn’t sit there and back out, make excuses or twists what was said to keep from looking bad either support what you said in the article or rewrite it to support what you are now saying because they are 2 different things. many others are saying the same about you’re inconsistencies below.

  204. TheSkipper 10 December 2012 at 12:08 am #

    I’d like to commend Jesse on this article. I may be a little late to be relevant for this, but I had to express my opinion. Before I begin, for the sake of not sounding like a broken record I will refrain from mentioning anything that hasn’t been said about handling, negative camber, or peoples’ personal tastes. I wish to simply elaborate what Jesse is talking about and my personal feelings. BUT let me first point out some TINY discrepancies that so many people failed to consider: 1) Is the obvious, this Jesse’s website that he made to express his love of this automotive from HIS perspective and its HIS right to express HIS opinion. 2) The website is dedicated to cars that are considered daily drivers. That means function is the highest priority.
    I admit, I am a great admirer of the stance culture and scene, however, Jesse has pointed out an issue within the culture that must be addressed. Today, there is a minority (albeit, quite large) that are improperly stancing their cars in order to achieve that prized fitment. Whether it be cutting springs, shoddy fabrication work, or improper use of parts; these people put their lives and those of us that share the road with them at risk. No, I don’t have statistics to back this up, but I have seen several desecrated oil pans and exhaust systems, even a couple mangled frames from improper stancing.
    I consider myself an enthusiast for all things automotive. I have appreciation for almost every niche within automotive culture. From muscle cars, to lowriders, purpose-built track monsters, to rat rods. What I most appreciate from all these cultures are the ones that advance their respective niches through engineering. The stance movement is no different. Today there happens to be a plethora of cars on the road today that are “stanced” and are considered “functional” as they can be driven on the road, handle well (although not much to be said about speed bumps and driveways) and even perform on the track. Although, so many fail to realize how hard it is to reach that goal. There are so many who don’t have the knowledge, money, time, dedication or mechanical skill to do it right.
    For those of you that have referenced Mike Burroughs or Mr. Omosowofa’s z33 as functional stanced cars have completely missed the point of this article. First, these are prime examples of passionate enthusiasts that are not the norm. They have poured thousands of man hours, considerable amounts of money and finally, most importantly engineered solutions for proper stance. To give you an idea, Mike and others actually took the idea of a coilover system for the e36 to AST to build a suspension system designed for stance. That’s beside the 3+ years it took to complete the entire car where heavy fabrication and customization techniques to get the car put together.
    Dedication is another issue. The saying “sucks to roll hard” is a saying often coined by an automotive repair shop that has been leader in the stance culture called FluidMotorUnion. This saying carries some weight in the community. On the stanceworks form there are numerous threads on that topic depicting thrashed oil pans, destroyed wheels and subframes, stitched up cracked and shattered body parts.
    The point I’m trying to drive home and I pretty sure this was Jesse’s as well: there is nothing wrong with stancing your car, BUT along with any modification on any car, those that choose to participate should to their research understand what consequences and most importantly DO IT CORRECTLY OR DON’T DO IT AT ALL!

    PS This may just be me, but the satire is fitting and may be the reason it went right over the heads so many that commented. No, not everyone who into wheel fitment are ricers, but if you modify your car to be worse than OEM, then yes you, my friend are a ricer.

  205. Kiriyama 5 January 2013 at 4:54 pm #

    First of all, let me just say that i respect your opinion. Everyone in the car scene likes different kinds of cars, and furthermore, different styles of the same cars. Thats what makes the car scene what it is. For instance, i absolutely love the stance scene. I love hellaflush, i love bippu style and i love oni-camber. At the same time, i absolutely despise muscle cars, harley style motorcycles, and generally any super heavy, ugly looking, obnoxiously loud american piece of trash on the road. Fart canned imports fit in this category as well. But thats just my opinion. Im not going to attack anybody for it, because who am i to judge what taste you have in vehicle sub-cultures? Now, you stated that you were aiming this article at those with unsafely stretched tires, cut springs and ride height that poses a danger to other drivers on the road. Understandable. However this was not in your initial article at all. You simply tore apart the hellaflush scene and criticized the vehicles within for being slow and ugly. You called them ricers, and the equivalent of show cars. This is where my issue lies. If you dont these cars, no big deal, most people dont. But dont change your argument as soon as people start picking flaws in it. If cut springs and torn off oil pans were your issue, then that should have been the subject of your article, not attacking the stance scene. There are plenty of respectable and functional stanced cars out there in the world, dont judge us all by the bad apples.

  206. Rick 28 January 2013 at 3:04 pm #

    Funny how this post was the downfall of this site.

  207. flusher 10 February 2013 at 11:55 am #

    you JERK, Rubbish !!!!!!!
    Hellaflush is a lifestyle !

  208. Patrick 10 February 2013 at 6:59 pm #

    just got to point out to you guys hellaflush is just lowriders in import form. This style has been around longer than most here have been alive it just now made it’s way fully into the import scene. People thought lowriders wouldn’t last but here it is today still kicking harder than ever. I’m more performance minded but I can respect the cruising aspect of these cars when done right it seems you guys are all describing the hellaflush ricers in the hellaflush scene the ones that half ass it and don’t put in the work just like muscle car guys talk shit about ricers in the import racing scene as if they are the only thing in the import racing scene.

    • Nick wolf 27 March 2013 at 12:55 pm #

      Honestly now that i think of it, hell yeah it is huh? Wow lol funny how I never realized that before and yes I’m being sincere for real thats crazy though

  209. Nick wolf 27 March 2013 at 12:52 pm #

    Hey Jesse O, I have a quick question, now I am wanting to do my car low, not ridiculously low but a good amount but with some negative camber, how do you fare up against cars that have a good amount of decent stance to them cause I agree with you some camber is ok and in certain times perfect with the right amount so the hellaflush style doesn’t have to be out of control, but I was just wondering how you felt about cars just a little bit of that style.

    • Jesse O'Brien 1 April 2013 at 4:46 pm #

      My advice is to forget about what “some guy on the internet” thinks. If it’s a street car, do whatever you want as long as it isn’t dangerous. If suspension is scraping the body, or the body’s scraping the ground, you’re too low. Assuming you follow the laws of physics, stretched tires have no place on a car driven on public roads. There’s nothing wrong with negative camber, but every ‘hellaflush’ car I’ve seen has gone overboard, making the car dangerous to drive. If you’re saying -1.0 or -1.2 degrees of camber, I’d say that’s street-safe for most cars.

      At the end of the day, it’s your decision. Try not to destroy public roads by tearing chunks of them up with the underbody of the car, and make sure your car is capable of navigating them safely (sometimes that even means going over speedbumps or crossing potholes without having to stop). If you really love the hellaflush style, build the car that really suits your fancy and trailer it to shows. Don’t pretend it’s a daily driver if you can’t make it up a typical driveway.

  210. Nick wolf 27 March 2013 at 12:57 pm #

    But also I love this piece cause I have been wanting to see peoples opinions about this for a while

  211. jebbyderinger 11 April 2013 at 8:45 pm #

    This article is old now but still totally relevant because the scene is still huge. I’m a fan of stanced cars but like almost everything that becomes more mainstream there are idiots that take it to the extreme to get noticed. One of the issues is that people have taken this look from functional race cars that never see a speed bump, pothole, or rough pavement. They have stiff suspension and sit low without a care in the world.

    I completely agree that if you are going to do this you should be able to drive it still. I like the look of a bit of negative camber and a fat tire just visible outside the fenders and I’m contemplating going for this look. When I do though I’m going to have it done by a reputable shop. If they tell me something is unsafe I’ll be damn sure to listen to them. I have no interest in having a car that has so many quirks no one else can drive it or having to get a second job to afford all the tires.

  212. Some Dude 1 May 2013 at 2:58 am #

    Erm… Hella is actually a German Manufacturer of O.E. and After market vehicle parts, including Lighting, Sensors etc.

  213. hellaflush 5 May 2013 at 10:48 am #

    FUCK OFF ADMIN .. HELLAFLUSH ALL THE WAY

  214. JUNKFEE 7 June 2013 at 10:33 am #

    Hellaflush= just a contest to see who can stuff the biggest wheels under the lowest car.

    in a few years all these cars will be on Craigslist, BEGGING to be bought at 1/4 value of a stock car.

    Kids- quit fucking up perfectly good cars. What you are doing looks like azz and is tacky.

    It ain’t tasteful.

  215. Riley 12 June 2013 at 11:51 am #

    Are you trying to say that this is functional http://truckandute.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/monster_chevy.jpg

    • Rob 28 November 2013 at 12:44 pm #

      If you find yourself in a swamp it sure is…

  216. SHMaRiM 28 June 2013 at 3:27 pm #

    It’s absolutely ridiculous when people wear their hats backwards too. The proper way to wear a hat is with the bill in the front. The function of the bill is to block sun. Gahhhh! Why people no understand!!!

    Critics, step off your high horses. This post is an entirely useless attack on a rather large car culture. The statement about super low cars slowing you down is laughable. Many of these cars have air ride and I’d honestly love to hear about how many times you’ve been stuck behind a lowered car… LOL. They aren’t THAT common.

    I will say, “radicals” who use extensive camber and stretch are not only putting themselves in potential danger, but also others on the road. However… This is even less common and typically aren’t driven as dailys.

    Mild stretch and a small amount of camber never hurt anybody and provide an aggressive look. Wears out your tires faster, but 512′s (that many people use) are about $300/set. Not a huge expense over buying more expensive tires that last longer…

    Many of these cars drive just as fast as your typical unmodified law abiding citizen on the highway and main streets. Speed bumps are usually not on main roads but rather in parking lots and neighborhoods, both of which are places you should be driving slow anyways.

    Get over it, modify your car the way you like it. That’s honestly all that really matters. I personally give two shits about making my daily into a race car but enjoy a few upgrades to give it bump in performance. Other than that, I usually focus on cosmetics because I don’t need to race a bunch of teenagers to make my balls feel bigger.

    The same could be said about people that put performance modifications on a beat up car. Sure it may be faster and handle better, but it’s looks like a turd and you’re grossing out all the classy girls. Lol

    To each his own.

    • Jesse 29 June 2013 at 9:26 am #

      I’m sorry, it sounds like you missed everything about safety and endangering other people on the road. You sound completely fixated on speed, for some reason, and have missed the larger issue.

  217. victor 11 July 2013 at 6:27 pm #

    you are “HellaStupid” you should blog about how wek your argument was.

  218. BobUy 5 August 2013 at 11:54 am #

    I’d honestly rather share the streets with street racers than with hellaflusherss. With street racers at least there will be some percentage that can drive properly. Hellaflush cars just can’t ever be driven properly.

    Keep in mind that when drifters stretch their rims they’re looking for greater sidewall rigidity, and at least have some idea of proper car control.

    I’ll admit that some “flushed” cars do look genuinely cool when parked. Driving on the road though? You see them bouncing on every little imperfection in the road. It’s far from graceful. Either bring them in a truck or get some proper air suspension so at least you can drive normally.

    • Rob 28 November 2013 at 12:43 pm #

      amen

  219. Rob 28 November 2013 at 12:42 pm #

    Actually Fatface was on of the major players in pushing the hellaflush movement… fatface is only respected by hellaflush bro kids.

  220. Logan Vaughn 9 December 2013 at 7:56 pm #

    Ur just jelious u dont have a car, ur a bitch!!!!!!

  221. Luis 12 December 2013 at 2:18 pm #

    I think your opinion on this is just an opinion. It’s like the whole “swag” phase that’s going around. It’s retarded! But it fills in people’s personalities and at the end of the day my hatch sees performance set ups for circuit and drag. And I’ll drop the offset bbs wheels for the car shows here and there. Still making the photo shoot. Grow up and go with the flow. Might as well. Make
    good of something then frown upon

  222. Bruce 29 December 2013 at 3:29 am #

    Please get the fuck out of my way

    -Prius Driver

  223. Bent 2 January 2014 at 6:47 pm #

    Dude the car above your Falcon comment is a Holden, surely that’s not the car you were talking about working on?

  224. IHOPEYOUUNDERSTAND 4 March 2014 at 11:21 pm #

    I’ve read through A LOT of comments and decided I needed to add something. We live in a society of surplus, and as humans progressed and grew we figured out ways to make surplus. We do a lot of stuff that is stupid or pointless. Why do we beef up performance, why do we slam cars to the ground, why do we watch or participate in racing events. Because we can. no one ever said it help performance to have your car dragging on the ground, but some people enjoy the look of lowered cars. I’m not going to hate on you because you painted your house grey and I don’t like grey. You are all arguing about customizing cars. I believe a nice custom car is one that came from the heart, and is something YOU want. I don’t like some cars flush, but some look nice flush. Same with rally, drift, race, whatever.

  225. cali4niaguy 21 March 2014 at 6:35 pm #

    braaa…travel outta Boston to warm weather and flat roads…like CA where i work and live now…im from MA too but the hellaflush scene is hated on bc you just dont get it ;)

  226. Craig 29 March 2014 at 5:13 pm #

    Just gonna throw this out there, not everyone wants to race or cares about racing. I don’t. As long as my truck looks good, that’s all I care about. I drive slow anyways, adding that hellaflush factor don’t change too much in my lifestyle.

  227. KneeDraggerz 5 April 2014 at 3:17 am #

    HellaFrush is remedial as shit. When did cars become an accessory? These kids probably own a plenthora of man bags/purse as well. Change your damn tampon & hit the weights. Your scrawny asses are already embarrassing enough to look at. Aim all this non sense at something more positive in your life or the future instead of drowning in your own circle of self acceptance. This is one of the reasons I stick to crotch rockets, you’ll never see a herrafrush crotch rocket ever.


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